TSS Survey: 30 Notables Weigh in on the Most Overrated and Underrated Boxers

Published

6 years ago

August 5, 2018

Ted Sares

PART ONE (A-K) OF A TWO-PART SURVEY — In this month’s survey, we asked our respondents to name the most overrated and most underrated boxers, active or retired. There was little agreement in the overrated category although Joe Calzaghe and Mike Tyson were both named twice. This was not the case with the most underrated where Ezzard Charles (pictured) made a strong showing as did Mike McCallum. John Scully and J. Russell Peltz threw us a curve call by nominating Rocky Marciano in both categories.

Here are the responses with the respondents listed in alphabetical order:

MATT ANRZEJEWSKI – TSS boxing writer: Most underrated: Junior Jones. He has a Hall of Fame resume that includes wins against Hall of Famers Marco Antonio Barrera and Orlando Canizales. Jones had tremendous boxing ability and one of the top jabs of his era. He is unfortunately judged too much on some losses, particularly a couple early in his career, but his body of work is outstanding and, in my opinion, he belongs in Canastota. The most overrated is Adrien Broner. I am not talking the current version of Broner but the prime version of a few years ago. Broner is a guy who beat up on “C” level fighters, struggled with “B” level type fighters and lost when he took any steps further up in class. Yes, he won some belts along the way but that is more the era we are in along with some excellent management.

JOE BRUNO – former New York City sportswriter; prolific author: Overrated – Muhammad Ali, without a doubt. He was only the greatest because he said so. Lost a decision to Leon Spinks in Spinks eighth pro fight. Five losses total. Enough said. Underrated- Rocky Marciano – won 49 straight, 43 by KO and people still question his ability. He fought the best of his time; some of them twice. What else could he have done?

STEVE CANTON – author, historian and President of the Florida Boxing Hall Of Fame: Among the most underrated boxers, in my opinion, would have to be Davey Moore, the Springfield Rifle, featherweight champion from the 1950’s and 60’s. He was our U.S. representative in the 1952 Helsinki Olympics and went on to a great professional career and was a dominant world champion until his untimely death following his ill-fated bout with Sugar Ramos. His final record was 59-7-1-1. Sadly, he has been overlooked for enshrinement into the International Boxing Hall of Fame. Two other names who I feel are also underrated are Italian junior welterweight champion Duilio Loi who won two of three from the great Carlos Ortiz along with defeating many other top names and retired with a final record of 115-3-8 and Mike McCallum, who retired with a professional record of 49-5-1 and was 240-10 as an amateur. Although both Loi and McCallum have been inducted into the IBHOF their names are not really brought up with the all-time greats and they should be.

CHARLIE DWYER – former professional referee and member of U.S. Marine Corps Boxing Hall of Fame: The most underrated boxer is Ezzard Charles. He was heavyweight champion and fought the metal of his division. What is forgotten is the fact that he was one of the best light heavyweights of all time. He defeated many top light heavy contenders and KO’d the “Old Mongoose” Archie Moore. Most of Ezzard’s losses were near the end of his career when he probably shouldn’t have been fighting. He never got his just due.

The most overrated boxer was Lamar Clark. As a heavyweight out of Utah in the late 50’s, he was knocking out everyone in sight. He was a stablemate of middleweight champion Gene Fullmer. Lamar had about 30 KOs in a row; in fact, on one show in late 1958, he KOd six opponents in one night. Because of his punching power, size, and the region he came from, Lamar was being hailed as the second coming of Jack Dempsey. Finally in early 1960, Lamar was matched with tough fringe contender Bartolo Soni. After going all out for a KO and flooring Soni, Clark faded and was stopped on his feet late in the fight. In 1961 Clark was KOd in two rounds by an upcoming Cassius Clay but not before staggering Clay with an overhand right in the first round. Lamar made some noise, but never lived up to the hype.

JEFFREY FREEMAN (aka Boxing Digest) – TSS New England correspondent: Olympian Teófilo Stevenson was grossly overrated by a left-leaning U.S. media that shamelessly promoted him over his professional American counterparts with little or nothing to go on. “Stevenson would’ve beaten Muhammad Ali and Larry Holmes.” No, he would not have. Better than being embarrassed like Jorge Luis Gonzalez against Riddick Bowe, Stevenson is now the undefeated heavyweight champion of many imaginations. We found out exactly what happens when Cuba sends their best. Does Rigo ring a bell? Yuriorkis Gamboa or bust? Maybe Odlanier Solis and Luis Ortiz should have never turned pro and just stayed amateur.

Liverpool’s Tony “Bomber” Bellew is the most underrated active fighter out there. He’ll get beat by anybody half decent they say. Really? Bellew is a light heavyweight who won a cruiserweight world title and remains undefeated (2-0 with two TKOs of David Haye) at heavyweight where his biggest dreams might yet come true. If Bellew fights comebacking clown Tyson Fury, my money is on the good little man who takes his career more seriously. If Bellew goes back down to cruiserweight for a shot at Oleksandr Usyk, don’t be too shocked if Bellew emerges with the undisputed cruiserweight championships or a hell of a good story to tell in the pubs someday.

CLARENCE GEORGE – boxing writer and historian: Plenty of candidates on both sides of the aisle, but Ingemar Johansson stands out among the underrated. His performances against Eddie Machen and Floyd Patterson were very impressive, and he had a magnificent right hand — “He left it perched on the side of his chin like a pigeon on a cornice,” wrote A. J. Liebling, “depending on it to take flight when its moment came.” Although not one of the giants, he nevertheless deserves greater appreciation. That’s on the one hand. On the other, Keith Thurman’s reputation is mystifying. His inactivity alone is cause for re-evaluation. His last three fights took place in July 2015, June 2016, and, most “recently,” in March 2017. Elaine Benes would not deem him at all “sponge-worthy.”

LEE GROVES – author, writer and CompuBox wizard: Underrated — Gene Tunney: Only one loss and one draw in nearly 80 fights, and that loss (to all-time pound-for-pound great Harry Greb, no less) was avenged several times over. Incredibly intelligent inside and outside the ring, Tunney also possessed enough grit and resourcefulness to survive a horrific beating and bloodletting at Greb’s hands and to fend off (and later knock down) a rampaging Jack Dempsey in their rematch. Yes, his time as heavyweight champion was limited to two fights, but he made the most of his opportunities, and before he dethroned Dempsey he was long considered one of the world’s best light heavyweights. “The Fighting Marine” was a truly underrated — and under-appreciated — fighter.

Overrated — Ingemar Johansson: My criterion for this category may be a bit different than most. To me, Johansson is overrated because he was elected into the International Boxing Hall of Fame by a majority of voters in 2002 despite going 1-2 in championship fights (where the strongest cases for induction are created), and, in both losses, he was knocked out by the man he dethroned. Champions, especially heavyweights since that division is so deeply historic, normally have a pretty high bar to clear in order to be considered (much less inducted), but, apparently, his one magical night against Patterson — and it was indeed magical — was enough in itself to merit induction in enough eyes.

HENRY HASCUP – historian; President of the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame: Underrated -Luis Manuel Rodriguez. Most people point to his loses to Emile Griffith but they fought four times and any one of those fights could have been scored the other way. He beat some of the best fighters from welterweight to light heavyweight. He is also one of ONLY two fighters in history who, after fighting 100 pro bouts, held a win over every opponent he had met in a pro ring.

Overrated is much harder as I never like to downgrade anyone that ever stepped into the squared circle.

DANNY HOWARD – boxing writer: Underrated? Michael Moorer. Was a dominant light heavyweight champ before becoming the second 175lb champ to win a belt at heavyweight and the first southpaw heavyweight champ ever. He was a top 5 heavy in the 90s in a deep era.

Overrated? Joe Calzaghe. Played it safe and his best win was against a never-was in Jeff Lacy.

JEFF JOWETT – longtime boxing scribe: Underrated: Georgie Benton. What boxing should be all about. A master technician who could stand toe-to-toe without being hit with a solid punch while getting enough leverage to deal out punishing blows in return, as opposed to defensive boxers who circle the ring on their toes, cut down on actual combat time and lack power. This was the sport at its best, a balance between defense and offense that made for exciting fights without having just two opponents blasting away on each other’s heads. Because of the economics and politics of boxing, there was a generation of post-war African-American master boxers who didn’t have a level playing field, Benton among them. Stevie Farhood once wrote an article in Kayo magazine about the 12 best boxers never to get a title shot, and ten of them were African-Americans, mostly post-war but before this writer’s time. So, my personal pick would be Georgie Benton.

Overrated: Barry McGuigan. Sorry about this; he really just represents a whole class of manufactured title holders since the devolution of the very meaning of “champion”, and so could be easily interchanged with a whole host of boxers with similar careers; meteoric rise and precipitous fall from grace, followed by little of note. He lost decisively while at the pinnacle, then instead of immediately launching a campaign to regain the title and recoup his reputation, stayed out for two critical years (I don’t know why; probably contracts), won three decent contests and then got knocked out, never fighting again. OK, so what’s so terrible about this? A good career, yes, and deserving of recognition in its own right. But he’s in the International Boxing Hall of Fame!!! This just isn’t my idea of a genuine HOF career; hence, overrated.

STUART KIRSCHENBAUM – Boxing Commissioner Emeritus, State of Michigan: I rate Rocky Marciano as the most overrated boxer of all time. Before I get in trouble with the American Italian Anti-Defamation League, I base my opinion on my years of experience approving boxing matches as a Commissioner. Let me dissect Rocky’s iconic 49-0 unbeaten heavyweight record. In his first 15 fights only one opponent had more than nine fights. In his next 34 fights his opponents had collectively 471 loses. His wins were over aging boxers on their way down the ladder as Rocky climbed over them to the top.

I rate Charley Burley as the most underrated boxer of all time. Charley never had a chance to fight for a world championship. During his career he defeated future world champions Fritzie Zivic, Billy Soose and Archie Moore. He won 84 of his 98 professional fights without ever being stopped. My late friend Allen Rosenfeld wrote the book “Charley Burley, The Life and Hard Times of an Uncrowned Champion”. The book is over 600 pages…a biblical treatise supporting my choice.

BRUCE KIELTY- boxing matchmaker, manager, and historian: I rate Wesley Ramey, master boxer, as one of the most underrated. He was too good for his own good and was not a major ticket seller (due to his slick style instead of blood and guts) so promoters did not have an incentive to give him a title shot. Heck, if respected boxing historian Hank Kaplan didn’t cite Ramey’s credentials during his own (Kaplan’s) IBHOF induction speech, Ramey might not have ever entered the HOF himself.

Thanks to all the contributors and especially Jim Lampley who took time out from his busy schedule to write an in-depth response to our survey questions. Lampley’s provocative entry opens Part Two arriving shortly. Stay tuned.

Check out more boxing news on video at The Boxing Channel

To comment on this article at The Fight Forum, CLICK HERE.

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Ted Sares

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Haney-Garcia Redux with the Focus on Harvey Dock

Published

1 day ago

April 22, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Haney-Garcia-Redux-with-the-Focus-on-Harvey-Dock

Saturday’s skirmish between Ryan Garcia and WBC super lightweight champion Devin Haney was a messy affair, and yet a hugely entertaining fight fused with great drama. In the aftermath, Garcia and Haney were celebrated – the former for fooling all the experts and the latter for his gallant performance in a losing effort – but there were only brickbats for the third man in the ring, referee Harvey Dock.

Devin Haney was plainly ahead heading into the seventh frame when there was a sudden turnabout when Garcia put him on the canvas with his vaunted left hook. Moments later, Dock deducted a point from Garcia for a late punch coming out of a break. The deduction forced a temporary cease-fire that gave Haney a few precious seconds to regain his faculties. Before the round was over, Haney was on the deck twice more but these were ruled slips.

The deduction, which effectively negated the knockdown, struck many as too heavy-handed as Dock hadn’t previously issued a warning for this infraction. Moreover, many thought he could have taken a point away from Haney for excessive clinching. As for Haney’s second and third trips to the canvas in round seven, they struck this reporter – watching at home – as borderline, sufficient to give referee Dock the benefit of the doubt.

In a post-fight interview, Ryan Garcia faulted the referee for denying him the satisfaction of a TKO. “At the end of the day, Harvey Dock, I think he was tripping,” said Garcia. “He could have stopped that fight.”

Those that played the rounds proposition, placing their coin on the “under,” undoubtedly felt the same way.

The internet lit up with comments assailing Dock’s competence and/or his character. Some of the ponderings were whimsical, but they were swamped by the scurrilous screeching of dolts who find a conspiracy under every rock.

Stephen A. Smith, reputedly America’s highest-paid TV sports personality, was among those that felt a need to weigh-in: “This referee is absolutely terrible….Unreal! Horrible officiating,” tweeted Stephen A whose primary area of expertise is basketball.

Harvey Dock

Dock fought as an amateur and had one professional fight, winning a four-round decision over a fellow novice on a show at a non-gaming resort in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. He says that as an amateur he was merely average, but he was better than that, a New Jersey and regional amateur champion in 1993 and 1994 while a student New Jersey’s Essex County Community College where he majored in journalism.

A passionate fan of Sugar Ray Leonard, he started officiating amateur fights in 1998 and six years later, at age 32, had his first documented action at the professional level, working low-level cards in New Jersey. The top boxing referees, to a far greater extent than the top judges, had long apprenticeships, having worked their way up from the boonies and Dock is no exception.

Per boxrec, Haney vs Garcia was Harvey Dock’s 364^th assignment in the pros and his forty-second world title fight. Some of those title fights were title in name only, they weren’t even main events, but, bit by bit, more lucrative offerings started coming his way.

On May 13, 2023, Dock worked his first fights in Nevada, a 4-rounder and then a 12-rounder on a card at the Cosmopolitan topped by the 140-pound title fight between Rolly Romero and Ismael Barroso. It was the first time that this reporter got to watch Dock in the flesh.

Ironically (in hindsight), the card would be remembered for the actions of a referee, in this case Tony Weeks who handled the main event. Barroso was winning the fight on all three cards when Weeks stepped in and waived it off in the ninth round after Romero cornered Barroso against the ropes and let loose a barrage of punches, none of which landed cleanly. Few “premature stoppages” were ever as garishly, nay ghoulishly, premature.

With all the brickbats raining down on Weeks, I felt a need to tamp down the noise by diverting attention away from Tony Weeks and toward Harvey Dock and took to the TSS Forum to share my thoughts. Referencing the 12-rounder, a robust junior welterweight affair between Batyr Akhmedov and Kenneth Sims Jr, I noted that Dock’s Las Vegas debut went smoothly. He glided effortlessly around the ring, making him inconspicuous, the mark of a good referee. (This post ran on May 15, two days after the fight.)

Folks at the Nevada State Athletic Commission were also paying attention. Dock was back in Las Vegas the following week to referee the lightweight title fight between Devin Haney and Vasyl Lomachenko and before the year was out, he would be tabbed to referee the biggest non-heavyweight fight of the year, the July 29 match in Las Vegas between Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr.

The Haney-Garcia fight wasn’t Harvey Dock’s best hour, I’ll concede that, but a closer look at his full body of work informs us that he is an outstanding referee.

—

While the Haney-Garcia bout was in progress, WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman threw everyone a curve ball, tweeting on “X” that Devin Haney would keep his title if he lost the fight. Everyone, including the TV commentators, was under the impression that the title would become vacant in the event that Haney lost.

Sulaiman cited the precedent of Corrales-Castillo II.

FYI: The Corrales-Castillo rematch, originally scheduled for June 3, 2005 and aborted on the day prior when Castillo failed to make weight, finally came off on Oct. 8 of that year, notwithstanding the fact that Castillo failed to make weight once again, scaling three-and-a-half pounds above the lightweight limit. He knocked out Corrales in the fourth round with a left hook that Las Vegas Review-Journal boxing writer Kevin Iole, alluding to the movie “Blazing Saddles,” described as Mongo-esque (translation: the punch would have knocked out a horse). After initially insisting on a rubber match, which had scant chance of happening, WBC president Jose Sulaiman, Mauricio’s late father, ruled that Corrales could keep his title.

Whether or not you agree with Mauricio Sulaiman’s rationale, the timing of his announcement was certainly awkward.

Haney’s mandatory is Spanish southpaw Sandor Martin (42-3, 15 KOs), a cutie best known for his 2021 upset of Mikey Garcia. A bout between Haney and Martin has the earmarks of a dull fight.

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In a Shocker, Ryan Garcia Confounds the Experts and Upsets Devin Haney

Published

3 days ago

April 21, 2024

David A. Avila

In-a-Shocker-Ryan-Garcia-Confounds-the-Experts-and-Upsets-Devin-Haney

Its good to be crazy. Like a fox.

Ryan “KingRy” Garcia knocked down WBC super lightweight titlist Devin Haney three times to remind everyone of his fighting abilities in winning by majority decision on Saturday.

“I just knew what I could do,” Garcia said.

Fans will not forget the lanky kid from Victorville, California now.

Garcia (25-1, 20 KOs) fooled everyone in playing crazy weeks before the fight, then showed shocking power to hand Haney (30-1, 15 KOs) his first loss as a professional at Barclays Center in Brooklyn.

Haney’s WBC super lightweight title was not at stake for Garcia because he weighed three pounds over the limit.

After Garcia seemingly acting out of control on social media, Haney’s guard must have slipped in the first round during the first few seconds as Garcia connected with that hellish left hook and Haney, with a look of shock in his eyes, almost went down. He barely survived the first round.

“He caught me with it,” said Haney.

During the next few rounds, Haney proceeded to advance toward Garcia seemingly fully aware of the lethal left hook. He used feints and rights to score with a busier approach as Garcia seemed cocked and ready to counter with a left hook.

In the fourth round it seemed Haney was confident he had regained control of the fight, but every time he opened up with more than a two-punch combination Garcia reminded him whose hands were faster and more dangerous.

Though Garcia seldom jabbed he seemed bent on looking for the right moment to unleash his deadly left hook. And every time the Southern California fighter opened up with a combination he scored and Haney dare not exchange.

A few times Haney smiled as if signifying he escaped.

In the seventh round Haney looked to punish Garcia’s body and instead was met with a three-punch combination included a left hook to the chin and down went Haney slumped on the ground. He managed to beat the count and as soon as Garcia came within reach Haney wrapped his arms around him with a python grip. Despite the warnings by referee Harvey Dock, the fallen fighter would not release and Garcia impatiently fired a weak punch during the break. The referee deducted a point from Garcia though he could have deducted a point from Haney for not obeying his instructions to release his hold. Haney actually went down three times in the round but only one was counted by the referee.

From that point on Haney was very cautious but still looking to win by decision.

Though Garcia kept using a shoulder-roll defense that left his body exposed, he would retaliate with three and four punch combinations that usually Haney could defend against other fighters.. But Garcia’s blazing combinations were too fast to defend.

In the 10^th round Haney looked to attack and was countered by Garcia’s right and a blinding left hook to the chin and another two blows that sent the former undisputed lightweight champion to the floor again.

It didn’t look good for Haney to survive.

Garcia walked into the 11^th round still composed and never out-of-control He dared Haney to exchange and when within striking distance Garcia unleashed another lightning combination and down went Haney again with a defeated look.

Both fighters had fought each other as amateurs six times so there were no surprises between them. But Garcia’s power and speed were superior and that was the difference in a professional fight.

In the final round both were cautious with Garcia’s combination punching proving too dangerous for Haney to open up. Garcia celebrated early as the round ended confident of victory.

After 12 rounds Garcia was seen the victor by majority decision 112-112, 114-110, 115-109.

“You really thought I was crazy,” Garcia told the interviewer and the crowd. “You guys hated on me.”

Other Bouts

Arnold Barboza (30-0) won a curious split decision victory over United Kingdom’s Sean McComb (18-2) in a 10-round super lightweight fight. McComb’s long reach and busy southpaw style gave Barboza trouble. But he managed to win the fight though the crowd was not pleased.

Bektemir Melikuziev (14-1, 10 KOs) defeated France’s Pierre Dibombe (22-1-1) by technical decision after eight rounds due to a cut on his eye from an accidental head butt. It was a very competitive super middleweight fight.

Costa Rica’s David Jimenez (16-1, 11 KOs) outworked John “Scrappy Ramirez (13-1, 9 KOs) in a 12-round scrap to upset the Los Angeles based fighter. After a few close rounds Jimenez simply bullied his way inside and forced Ramirez against the ropes and unloaded his guns.

After 12 rounds two judges saw it 117-111 and 116-114 all for Jimenez.

“I’m a hard-working man from Cartago I come from nothing,” said Jimenez. “My corner told me I had to work inside.”

Charles Conwell (19-0, 14 KOs) stepped on the gas early with vicious body shots and uppercuts and blasted through the resilient Nathaniel Gallimore (22-8-1, 17 KOs) for several rounds. After a brutal fifth and sixth round the referee halted the one-side beating in favor of Conwell who was fighting for the first time under the Golden Boy banner.

Another winner was Sergiy Derevyanchenko (15-5) by decision over Vaughn Alexander (18-11-1) in a super middleweight match.

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Haney and Garcia: Bipolar Opposites

Published

4 days ago

April 20, 2024

TSS Press

Haney and Garcia: Bipolar Opposites

One young man flew halfway around the world to take on a world champion in his own living room; not once, but twice. The other young man quit prior to one fight, and then again during another one.

The first guy mentioned is an obedient son of an ultra-streetwise father. The type of parent where, if he doesn’t know the answer (and more times than not he most likely does), he will know where to find it. The second guy doesn’t appear to have that quality guidance scenario going on for him, which is probably for the best, because he believes he has all the answers.

The first guy is on record as saying he wants to go down in boxing history as an all-time great. The other guy? He decided not to continue in a fight while he was still sporting an undefeated record. You may think to yourself if there was ever a time to soldier through, right?

Then yesterday, that same guy missed making weight by 3.2 pounds, and seemed to be more than fine with it, to the point where he actually appeared to be quite pleased with himself.

If you haven’t heard, Devin Haney and Ryan Garcia are going to share a boxing ring in a twelve round go for God knows what will be at stake by the time they actually punch off. The fact that no one from Garcia’s team has stepped in and rescued him from these unfolding events, his own personal well-being, and/or not to mention Devin Haney is, well, troubling in and of itself.

Back in the amateur days, the record shows they split six fights. They were boys back then, so it means zero. If anything, you’d want to be the older of the two, and Ryan had over a three-month age advantage. If you’ve only been on the planet for a total of 120 months or so, every extra month could be a big enough difference in strength and development. Now as world class professionals in their prime? That’s different. Younger is always better. Devin is that guy.

Haney and Garcia fought six times for free but will fight only once as professionals. Then one of them will continue with their march for historic greatness, while the other will head back to Kamp Krazy, where he’s the current Mayor.

It’s never smart to lay 8-1, 9-1 in boxing. And if you see taking Garcia as a value bet with +500 to +600 and beyond, you don’t understand value and you evidently don’t like money.

There is, however, a wagering opportunity here.

Total Rounds: Fight doesn’t go 10.5 rounds.

Take anything over +125. It’s worth a unit on a scale of 5. Logically, there are a lot of ways to cash this ticket: legitimate victory, meltdown, catching lightning in a bottle, etc. Or simply the exiting stage left of a guy who may be already plotting his next career move.

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