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THE MARKSMAN FIRES FILE: Q n A With Judge Robert Hoyle

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The business of boxing has multiple levels of understanding. Sports officials usually let their results do the talking and rarely reveal much about themselves, or the method to their madness. And from a distance, officials in sports are obsessed with perfection. But what gets lost in officiating is the passion for the sport.

Dancing boxers and Mike Tyson fights are some of the things that run through the mind of Robert Hoyle, the highly regarded boxing judge out of the state of Nevada.

Hoyle never fought professionally but grew up a fighter. He was in the military for 21 years before entering boxing.

In this interview, Hoyle reminds us that judges are not getting rich writing on scorecards. As Hoyle tells us, “No one has came up and said, ‘Hey, here is some money. Take care of my guy.’ But as sports are viewed as a level playing field where the best man usually wins, Hoyle oversees the outcome and senses the disconnection at times between the way fans and officials watch fights.

Hoyle’s boxing journey started in the 1980s when he worked security at Caesars Palace sports events, covering prizefights like Marvin Hagler vs. Ray Leonard. In 1992, Hoyle switched roles to be an inspector, working corners and overseeing fighters. In 1999, Hoyle seized the opportunity to become a boxing judge, and he has worked some of the more memorable fights in recent memory, including the third fight between Manny Pacquiao and Juan Manuel Marquez, and the Floyd Mayweather vs. Miguel Cotto fight.

Read on as Hoyle explains the art of judging, the Mike Tyson mystic, and the myth behind “fixed fights.”

Ray Markarian: Thanks for taking the time, Robert.

Robert Hoyle: Well hey, you called me, man, this is a privilege. I didn’t want to miss the chance to get to talk to you.

RM: Well, you know, to speak to a respected boxing judge that has worked many high profile fights is my privilege. Let’s keep it free flowing…. Let’s start off by telling me why you wanted to be a boxing judge.

RH: You know, I’ll tell you, my first exposure to boxing was when I started out as an inspector. And, I am not sure if you are familiar with the duties of an inspector. We work the corners and work with the fighters before the fights…

RM: Yeah.

RH: OK. So, some of the fights that got me real charged up back in the day were the Tyson fights. Mike Tyson real made me a fan of boxing. From working security for events to becoming an inspector, I got the opportunity to go into the amateur program as a boxing judge and it became like a bug to me. And once you catch the bug in boxing you’re stuck. It’s the same reason why a lot of fighters can’t retire. They keep coming back because they got that bug. And that’s what I got. So, once I started as an inspector, I wanted to do more. I enjoyed what I was doing with the fighters in the dressing rooms and sitting ringside. It felt good to be a part of the event and actually make a difference. I think we all come across situations in life where we get an opportunity to make a difference, and I wanted to make a difference in boxing.

RM: So, how did you even get a job as an inspector? I’m sure it’s not easy.

RH: Yeah, it’s funny you say that. I saw your interview with Kenny (boxing referee Kenny Bayless.) Kenny and I have this six-degrees of separation. Kenny started off as an inspector. When he got called up to be a referee, I took his spot as an inspector.

RM: Wow. Small world.

RH: Yeah. I just happened to be in the right place at the time.

RM: What is the main thing that has changed about your experience as judge from when you started in 1999 to the present day?

RH: You never stop learning. I worked with a lot of officials that are more senior than I am, and they don’t think they need to learn anymore. They think they know it all. But you always see different angles when you learn.

RM: Then what makes you different from any other judge?

RH: Well, I wouldn’t say I am different. But I am constantly try to reinvent or recharge myself.

RM: You always want to stay sharp.

RH: Exactly. You see, as a judge, I learn a lot from referees and other judges. Referees need to know the rules. And judges need to know the rules. If a referee calls a knockdown, it’s a knockdown. But if he doesn’t see it, it didn’t happen.

RM: What is the biggest disconnection in your opinion between the way fans and officials sees fights?

RH: Everybody wants to believe that a fight is close. If one round is close, sometimes a fan thinks the entire fight was close. The casual fan needs to remember that a 12 round championship fight has 12 individual fights.

RM: So, do you use a basic criterion for every fight?

RH: Well, before every round I want to see who controls the action and who can do the most damage. In my opinion, the smart fighter will come out in the first round and jump on the other guy. That’s why we had so many knockouts in the first round back in the day… The best fighters never gave their opponent the chance to get into his groove. The smartest thing to do is catch the opponent off guard in the first round.

RM: What are you looking for when there isn’t a knockout?

RH: Well, I am still looking at scoring blows. Fans don’t remember a scoring zone. As a judge you have to remember if a punch landed on the opponents’ back or back of the head, then it’s not a scoring blow. It may have caused some damage, but it’s not a scoring blow.

RM: So, tell me more about that. What is a scoring blow?

RH: A scoring blow is any punch that lands between the navel and top of the forehead. You split the ears and go back down to the body. Any punch on the back, I don’t care how strong of a punch that is… You have a lot of boxers that like to turn their back defensively; they are forcing their opponent outside of the scoring zone.

RM: Do you remember the first fight between Evander Holyfield and Riddick Bowe?

RH: Yeah I do.

RM: Well, Bowe knocked Holyfield down with a blow to the back of the head. In the 11th round, Bowe kind of got out of his way and Holyfield fell into the ropes, and took an illegal shot. The referee scored that a knockdown. Is that a scoring blow?

RH: Well, that’s the referee’s call. In a particular fight, if a fighter is throwing a punch and you turn your head to cause that blow to land outside the scoring zone, the referee can call it a knockdown. The name of the game is to hit and not get hit.

RM: But if the referee did not call it a knockdown, then it’s a rabbit punch, and you just keep going?

RH: Right. But you do consider the attacking fighter’s aggression. Let me just tell you this; if the round is really close, you must identify the effective aggressor. Now, that Bowe punch wasn’t an effective, aggressive punch because it was outside the scoring zone but he was still aggressive. He was trying to win the fight. Out of everything I tell you, you have to remember that a boxing judge is looking for that guy who is trying to win.

RM: Looking for that guy who is trying to win?

RH: Yeah.

RM: Well, most times both of the fighters are trying to win, right?

RH: Very true.

RM: So how do you prepare to judge a fight?

RH: People ask me that question all the time. But you never know who is going to show up in the ring on that particular night. It could be Tyson and Holyfield. Everybody knows those fighters but I don’t know where Tyson’s mind is going to be on that (fight) night and I don’t know where Holyfield’s mind is going to be that (fight) night. I just know that someone is going to establish that dominant authority when they come together in the ring. And that’s what I am looking for, I am looking for that fighter that is establishing dominant authority in that ring for that particular round.

RM: How much does momentum play into a fight?

RH: Look, I am not a fortuneteller. You can look at all of the history you want. I can’t tell you which fighter is coming in that ring the hungriest. If Fighter A and Fighter B jump in the ring today and then fight again six months from now, I expect the fight to be completely different, because you don’t know what’s going on in their head. Boxing is a mental sport. If your mind is not ready for what you are about to engage in, it will take you out of the fight.

RM: What do you think it takes to get recognized as a “good” judge?

RH: Well, I am just very lucky to grow up as an official around the top guys in the game, here in Las Vegas. I am fortunate enough to pick their brains to ask what they are looking for, and how they identify who is causing the most damage. I say the word “damage” sort of nonchalantly but to me boxing is like a dance. If you watch two people dancing together, you automatically can spot who is leading the dance.

RM: Referee Jack Reiss once told me that there are a lot of posers in boxing. He said that many officials do not know what it feels like to take a punch. Do you agree with his thoughts on poser officials?

RH: Well, there are a lot of officials that don’t know what it takes to step in the ring. Sometimes it is good to know what a fighter is feeling. There are many officials that have not hit a punching bag. I am positive most officials have not laced up a pair of boxing shoes and stepped in the ring, not to fight an opponent, but just hop around in that ring. That boxing mat feels like sand after a while. You start feeling heavy around your feet. You begin to gain a different level of respect for fighters that can fight for 12 rounds, and still fight strong in that 12th round. You gain a whole new respect for them. If you don’t understand and see what happens in the gym, whether it’s sparring or just working out, you are doing yourself a disservice as an official.

RM: What is the first thing you are looking for when the round starts?

RH: One thing I can spot right away is when a particular fighter is moving in the wrong direction. The best fighters come with a plan. If you watch a fight closely and think of boxing as a dance, you can see one guy leading the other guy into a big punch. And that tells me the best fighters come with a plan. There’s guys that come to fight and there’s the ones that come with a plan. The fighters with a plan are like fortune tellers because they see the end coming. They watch their opponent’s movement.

RM: I hear you. One fighter will throw a punch to set it up for three or four punches later.

RH: That’s right. That’s exactly right.

RM: But we are talking about the casual fan that does not see it.

RH: No. They don’t see it. One thing I will tell you about becoming an official is that it robs you of the fandom. I watch fights at home like it is work. I don’t enjoy fights anymore. It’s work. I remember the last time I was a fan. Before I became an inspector, I was working security for a Tyson fight. Tyson used to create so much electricity in the arena. He made me feel like I was fighting.

RM: Sounds intense.

RH: I am not knocking any of the guys that are fighting today. There’s some great talent right now. But Tyson used to make you feel like you were a part of the event. I was a fan of Mike Tyson because he was so destructive and explosive.

RM: Which Tyson fight are you talking about?

RH: The Frank Bruno fight.

RM: Oh, the first fight?

RH: Yeah. You have to remember, Frank Bruno was a big guy. Tyson used to fight some massive guys. And Bruno was huge, but he was breathing so hard because he was nervous…. I was sitting ringside for that fight and Bruno’s abs looked like bricks. I remember thinking that if I fought this guy (Bruno) and punched him in the stomach I would probably break my wrist. When Mike comes out of the dressing room he was menacing. He had the look of, “Man, I am going to kill this guy.” We all know the end result. Tyson destroyed (Bruno). See, that’s the mental side of the sport that I am talking about. Bruno had the looks of a winner that night, but a lot of guys have the fight taken out of them before the walk in the ring.

RM: Can you give me an example of a time you worked a fight when a guy lost it mentally before he entered the ring?

RH: Well, I will tell you about the time when Mike Tyson fought Bruce Seldon. I worked as an inspector in Seldon’s corner, and we could hear Tyson warming up in his dressing room. And, when I am talking about warming up, I am talking about Tyson throwing punches at a wall.

RM: Tyson was shadow boxing?

RH: Yeah. But in Seldon’s dressing room we were thinking, “What is that noise? What is going on?” But Bruce knew what was going on… He knew what he was about to face. So, only a fighter can decide if he is ready to face that.

RM: That is a crazy story.

RH: Yeah. As an inspector, you have to stay neutral but I was just thinking about Seldon’s stress at the moment.

RM: You know, these stories are fun to talk about but I remember during that particular time, a lot of people thought the Tyson/Seldon fight was fixed.

RH: They can say what they want. But if you are not mentally prepared for someone like Mike Tyson, he will scare the hell out of you.

RM: OK.

RH: I mean, that’s just the truth. I think Bruce was ready for the fight physically. But he didn’t have the mental toughness like Holyfield. Holyfield made up his mind that he wasn’t going anywhere. Holyfield said he was good or better than Mike Tyson. And Holyfield went after him.

RM: But as a judge, I am sure you hear about “fixed fights” often…. I’ll be honest, I Googled your name before we got on the phone, and one of the first things that came up was an article written to the Nevada State Athletic Commission criticizing you about a fight that you judged. The article was basically declaring the fight corrupt partially because of your scorecard. How do you feel when you hear that?

RH: Well Ray, I am glad you asked me that question. I am fortunate enough to judge fights in the fight capital of the world. I mean there are some other great cities and states that hold amazing fights including California and New York. But let me just tell you this, Las Vegas is not a fighter-dependent city.

RM: What does fighter-dependent city mean?

RH: Some places have fighters that go to the top level and they represent a city, or state, or even a country. Las Vegas does not have that. Mike Tyson, Holyfield, and Mayweather, they built this city. Now, this guy that wrote an article about me, and I will tell you, I am in awe that he even took the time to pen that much about me, but no one in Las Vegas can even tell you about the fighters he is talking about. You know?

RM: And you always have to do a good job because your name is on the line.

RH: Exactly Ray. You can’t get discredited as an official and keep going. Everything that I do is critiqued so heavily. Most fighters will live to fight another day. An official is only as good as his last fight. I have to do a good job tonight because I have to work tomorrow. And I have to do a good job as the fans, the media, and the commission interpret it.

RM: Did you get any backlash from the commission for that article?

RH: I didn’t. But would they be eager to assign me to one of those fighters again? I don’t know. It is what it is.

RM: I hear you.

RH: I have no hidden agenda with any fighter. I feel like the justice of the sport is in my hands. If I don’t do the right thing, not only do I fail the fighters, but also I fail myself and my family, and my credibility in the sport.

RM: It is easy to question the credibility of a judge, right?

RH: Look Ray, I have done fights all over the world and I’ll be honest with you, I have seen home cooking. But for me, I don’t care who is the hometown or visiting guy. I just care about who wins that round.

RM: OK. But what does that say about the sport? How do you expect boxing fans to feel about the sport when they hear a professional judge talk about home cooking? Not about you, but about the sport.

RH: Well, what I will say about it is that a lot of the commissions and sanctioning bodies are aware of it. They know, and hear all the criticism. Nowadays, officials are not going to get away with it because someone is always watching. Being an official, I can watch a fight and read a scorecard, and I know what that judge was doing by reading the scorecard. It’s like reading a book. A long time ago, judges used to give a courtesy round.

RM: A courtesy round?

RH: Yeah. You know, if you have a guy that is winning eight or nine rounds straight, some judges used to start feeling bad for the guy that is losing and they say, “oh well, let’s give him a round.”

RM: OK.

RH: That type of stuff doesn’t work today. Every round is counted and scrutinized. You have to be on your A game every round. If an official makes a mistake, somebody is watching you do that and they will ask, “Why did you give him that round when he didn’t win it?” and you have to have a clear answer to justify it. Because you have the TV crew and the fans watching closely as well, sometimes you even have a fighter that says he didn’t win a round in a fight. So, as an official you have to be on your ‘A game.’ You cannot make a mistake. Good thing for the fans is that the officiating is continuing to get better. Everyone is working to get it better. There are more eyes on it. I will tell you what, for any fight that anyone feels challenged by me, one thing I will do is I will take the video and I will watch it with my director or other judges that I respect. I will ask them what they see.

RM: You want to use every fight as a learning tool.

RH: Correct.

RM: You are considered an expert but at the end of the day you want to continue to learn and become even better at what you do.

RH: That is right.

RM: What’s the best advice anyone has given you about your profession?

RH: Best advice?

RM: Yeah.

RH: Richard Steele once told me before one of the first big fights that I got assigned to, he said, “Don’t start doing something new today. What you have done has gotten you this far. Don’t change that and start something new.” I have always kept those words with me.

RM: What does boxing mean to you as a sport?

RH: You know, it’s just like for you in writing. I have read your articles. I saw your interview with Kenny. I know Kenny. You captured his essence. I visualized it. It was like I saw him talking. I wish I could write like you. But that wasn’t my calling. I don’t know how you found your calling, but you found it. I used to box when I was younger. I had some street fights when I was younger. So boxing was in me, but I joined the military so I didn’t really have a chance to pursue the sport. I didn’t choose boxing I fell into it. Something clicked.

RM: The passion for boxing just oozes out of you. I love it.

RH: Look man, we are not going to retire off of this sport. We do this for the love. Going back to how people say they pay us (judges) off. No one is coming up to us saying here’s 10 million dollars when their fighter is getting paid 30,000.

RM: That’s true.

RH: I’ll be honest with you, no one has came up and said, “Hey, here is some money. Take care of my guy.” Look, promoters and managers are paid to do what they do. It’s their job to hype up their guy. But I am going to tell you just like I would tell them, “the responsibility falls on your fighter. He needs to get in the ring to do what he is supposed to do because I have to do my job. And my job is score each round fairly for both fighters.”

RM: You have to look out for yourself first, right?

RH: Well, it’s like I said, I live and die by each fight.

You can follow Ray on Twitter @raymarkarian or email him here raymond.markarian@yahoo.com.


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Remembering ‘Rocky Estafire,’ One Tough Syrian

Ted Sares

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On Sept. 9, 1978, a Bayonne, New Jersey brawler who was billed as Rocky Estafire when he was first starting out, stopped slick Bobby “Boogaloo” Watts in Jersey City giving notice that he was becoming a force to be reckoned with in the middleweight division. Watts was no slouch having split a pair with Marvelous Marvin Hagler.

”Strictly LaMotta style,” said Paddy Flood of his fighter who would come to be known by his real name, Mustafa Hamsho.

In 1980, he beat undefeated Wilford Scypion and followed that up with close wins over Curtis Parker and Alan Minter in 1981 leading to his first of two title clashes with Hagler. This bloody encounter, won by Hagler on an 11th-round TKO, left both fighters needing stiches.

“Throughout Hagler’s nonstop, 11th-round barrage, Hamsho kept coming on. He didn’t win a round, but he did take the battle of the stitches, 55-5,” wrote Pat Putnam in Sports Illustrated. “I don’t know what his corner was waiting for…The meat from his eyes was hanging down. But I can’t let that bother me. I just have to think, better him than me,” said Hagler.

More from Putnam: “When Hagler had left the hospital, the doctors were still working over Hamsho, who, until his trainer, Al Braverman, jumped into the ring to stop the fight, looked as though he would run out of blood before he ran out of heart. He was badly cut under both brows: Each wound was at least two inches long and half an inch wide. There was another slice under his left eye. He didn’t win a round from any of the three officials.”

Al Braverman, who co-managed Hamsho with the aforementioned Flood, once described the Syrian’s style as follows: “….”He’s got no style. He just wades in, throwing punches from any angle.”  He also possessed great stamina, a granite chin and incredible courage, along with head and shoulder butts, elbows, low blows, shoves, holding, chops behind the head, and whatever he could get away with.

The Matinee Idol

Bobby Czyz was 20-0 when he met Hamsho at the Convention Center in Atlantic City on Nov. 20, 1982. The undefeated New Jersey lad with the somewhat strange moniker of “Matinee Idol” and the high IQ had solid wins over Danny Long, Teddy Mann, Oscar Albarado, Elisha Obed, and Robbie Sims. Against Hamsho he was stepping up in class but he was a solid opponent for the Syrian who was 34-2-2 coming in.

If Bobby won, he would position himself for a shot at Marvelous Marvin, but Hamsho mauled and mugged the future world light heavyweight champion over ten rounds and won a convincing UD. (The rest of the Bobby Czyz story is told in “The Boxer Who Became a Bagger,” a remarkable and poignant article by sports columnist Steve Politi that first appeared in the Newark Star-Ledger.)

Wilfred Benitez

HIs UD victory over Wilfred Benitez (45-2-1) in 1883 was pure Hamsho featuring elbows, butts, and low blows. The third round was difficult to watch as the compact Syrian rendered a brutal beating on “El Radar,” using accurate nonstop shots coming from all directions. Between slips and knockdowns, Wilfred hit the deck four times.

Clearly, Benitez had faded, but Hamsho hastened the process and helped point the legendary Puerto Rican in a downward direction. Wilfred looked sluggish and poorly conditioned; he was not the same Benitez who knocked out Maurice Hope in spectacular fashion or out-boxed Roberto Duran for 15 rounds. Something was wrong.

But even in top shape, Benitez would have struggled against Hamsho with his mauling, brawling, non-stop pressure. Hamsho could make anyone look bad.  (Wilfred Benitez would lose several more outings after the Hamsho beatdown. Matthew Hilton finished the job with a terrifying KO in 1986. Wilfred’s story is a terribly sad one as he now requires constant care.)

Hamsho would lose another fight with Hagler—this time quickly and badly– and then go 6-2 before retiring in 1989 with a record of 44-5-2.

Those who were fortunate enough to see him fight remember a fan-pleasing, all-action combination of Vito Antuofermo, Michael Katsidis, Antonio Margarito, and Gene Fullmer.

Amir Khan and Prince Naseem Hamed are two very high profile, proud Muslim fighters. Mustafa Hamsho’s name can be added.

Ted Sares can be reached at tedsares@roadrunner.com

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Miguel Madueno Scores His 12th Straight Knockout at Ontario, Calif

David A. Avila

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Ontario, CA — A return of fans to the Inland Empire saw Mexico’s Miguel Madueno extend his consecutive knockout streak to a dozen at the Doubletree Hotel in Ontario, California on Friday.

It was the first fan-filled event for a Thompson Boxing card in the “I.E.” in almost two years.

Lightweight contender Madueno (26-0, 24 KOs) of Culiacan powered his way to his 12th consecutive knockout and this came at the expense of fellow Mexican Jose Luis Rodriguez (25-15-1, 13 KOs) with a focused attack to the body.

Rodriguez was clever and tough and would not allow Madueno to overwhelm him during the first four rounds. But in the fifth he was not as lucky as a four-punch barrage to the body sent him to one knee. He beat the count but was overwhelmed by Madueno who forced referee Raul Caiz to end the fight at 2:46 of the fifth round.

“In reality I thought I would end it early,” said Madueno about seeking an early knockout. “But he could take it.”

In the co-main event Japan’s Katsuma Akitsugi (7-0) outhustled Northern California’s Eros Correa (10-1) after eight rounds in a bantamweight scrap to win by majority decision.

Akitsugi, a southpaw, and Correa both showed quick hands and good chins. But the Japanese fighter was always on attack and Correa resorted to holding from the second round on. He was never warned by the referee for excessive holding. It could have helped him get back in the fight.

Every time Akitsugi entered the danger zone Correa would grab ahold like an MMA fighter instead of fighting on the inside. While Correa held Akitsugi punched and that proved the difference as two judges scored it 78-74 for Akitsugi, while a third saw it 76-76.

“I could not box my style at all,” said Akitsugi, 23. “I’m glad I brought the win home.”

Other Bouts

San Bernardino’s Esteban Munoz (5-1, 3 KOs) knocked out Tijuana’s Manuel Martinez (6-5-4) with a body shot in the first round. He could not beat the count. Munoz had stunned Martinez earlier with a counter right. Then he found an opening to the body and delivered a right to the gut and down went Martinez. He was counted out at 1:50 of the first round.

Coachella’s Lazaro Vargas (4-0) out-worked Ulises Rosales (0-5) over four rounds of a super bantamweight match to win by unanimous decision 40-36 on all three cards.

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Oscar Rivas is Boxing’s First Bridgerweight Champ; Tops Spunky Ryan Rozicki

Arne K. Lang

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Back in January, the World Boxing Council announced that they were creating a new weight division. Tailored to boxers weighing between 200 and 224 pounds, they named it Bridgerweight. Tonight, at the Olympia Theatre in Montreal, the first WBC bridgerweight champion was crowned. Montreal-based Oscar Rivas, a 2008 Olympian representing his native Columbia, turned the trick with a unanimous 12-round decision over fellow Canadian Ryan Rozicki, advancing his record to 28-1 (19).

Rozicki, who is from Nova Scotia, out-performed expectations. Although he had knocked out all 13 of his opponents since turning pro in 2016, he hadn’t defeated anyone of note and hadn’t fought beyond six rounds. He drew the assignment when Rivas’s original opponent Bryant Jennings was scratched because of his refusal to accept Canada’s COVID protocols for unvaccinated foreigners. (A match between Rivas and Jennings would have been a rematch of their Jan. 18, 2019 contest in Verona, New York, a rather ho-hum match that had a dramatic ending when Rivas turned up the heat in the 12th round.)

Rivas, 34, was making his second start since suffering his lone defeat, a setback on points in a 12-round contest with Dillian Whyte in London. The heavier man by 19 pounds, he dominated the first two frames, rocking Rozicki in the opening stanza, but the Nova Scotian clawed his way back into the fight. Rivas had a strong penultimate round and although he had a point deducted for holding in the final stanza, it did not factor into the outcome. The judges had it 116-111 and 115-112.

What’s next for Oscar Rivas? Logically a bout with Evgeny Romanov. A 36-year-old Russian with a 16-0 (11-0 mark), Romanov was ranked #2 behind Rivas in the WBC’s latest set of bridgerweight rankings. Romanov’s claim to fame is that he TKOed Deontay Wilder is in amateur days, but that was way back in 2008.

Another possibility, and one likely to attract more buzz, would be a bout with Alen Babic. A 30-year-old Brit by way of Croatia, the colorful, free-swinging Babic (8-0, 8 KOs) has a date later this month in London with Texas trial horse Eric Molina.

The best guess, however, is that Rivas will discard the belt and go back to competing as a heavyweight. The bridgerweight title, we suspect, like many of the lesser titles, will be perpetually vacant, which likely wouldn’t trouble the WBC at all as they will gather up a sanctioning fee from a bridgerweight title fight whether there is an incumbent or not.

There were two 8-rounders offering chief support, but both were cancelled when the opponents failed to pass muster. Left in the lurch were “A side” Canadians Sebastien Bouchard, a welterweight, and Steve Rolls, a middleweight.

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