Who Would Make For a More Alluring Opponent For Joshua, Wilder or Fury?

Published

6 years ago

October 1, 2018

Well it’s official. On December 1st WBC heavyweight title holder Deontay Wilder 40-0 (39) will face former lineal champ Tyson Fury 27-0 (19) at the Staples Center in Los Angeles. And then hopefully the winner will face WBA/IBF/WBO title holder Anthony Joshua 22-0 (21) in Joshua’s next fight, booked for April 13^th of next year at Wembley Stadium. And as Muhammad Ali often said prior to facing Joe Frazier back in 1971 “we’re gonna clear up all the confusion as to who the real heavyweight champ of the world is.”

The winner of Wilder-Fury vs. Joshua will be the most anticipated heavyweight showdown in at least 20 years and the only question is who would make for a bigger and better fight for Joshua, Wilder or Fury? However, before getting to that, there must be some correlations highlighted that substantiate why if Fury won and faced Joshua, it would parallel in many respects the first fight between Ali and Frazier.

Tyson Fury’s journey resembles Muhammad Ali’s. After winning the title from Wladimir Klitschko, Fury backslid into alcohol and drug abuse and never defended it. He retired and remained inactive for 31 months before returning to the ring. Fury has fought two non-entities in Sefer Seferi and Francesco Pianeta since returning.

After nine title defenses, Ali was exiled from the ring for 43 months for refusing military induction. Like Fury, Ali fought twice before earning a title shot against champ Joe Frazier. The difference is Ali fought and beat two of the top five contenders in the division at the time in Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena.

In the ring, Fury, like Ali in his era, is an unconventional boxer who uses the ring and applies an unorthodox offense and defense. But this characteristic they have in common pales in comparison to the one thing where Fury most closely resembles Ali, and that’s the ability to stir things up with words, actions and pointed threats and promises as to what he’s going to do to his next opponent. Fury is clearly the best trash talker since Ali and his ability to draw crowds and gain attention is unrivaled by any fighter in boxing today. If Fury beats Wilder he’ll have a picnic going after the perceived good guy Joshua just as Ali did going after Frazier with the verbal assaults he lobbed his way.

Speaking of Joshua, in this equation he’s Joe Frazier. AJ holds a majority of the available hardware as Joe did, he’s a big puncher who wins exclusively by knockout and pretty much doesn’t say or do anything that crosses the line or is seen as being controversial. And perhaps the thing that joins Joshua and Frazier the most is that they both emerged just when the high profile charismatic champ was exiting. In Ali’s absence, Frazier looked every bit as impressive as Ali did on the way up, whereas Joshua has looked even more formidable than did Fury on Fury’s way up to the title. Moreover, both Frazier and Joshua, as terrific as they looked in the ring, both needed to beat the other fighter to be considered the true champion. In Joe Frazier’s case that meant Ali and in Joshua’s case it’s the Wilder-Fury survivor.

Who makes for a better event and fight against Joshua; Wilder or Fury?

The answer to that isn’t just a matter of who you like better between Deontay and Tyson. One makes for a more compelling fight in the ring, strategically, and the other makes for a bigger event, overflowing with boldness and insulting statements directed at Joshua on a daily basis.

From an in-the-ring perspective, a fight between Wilder and Joshua would no doubt be a better fight and more explosive. They are the two biggest punchers in the heavyweight division who for all intents and purposes seek to win their bouts by knockout. Both have an extremely long reach and use it to set up their bread and butter punch which in this case is their right hand. It can be argued as to who is the bigger puncher, and it’s plausible Wilder’s best right hand is a bigger single shot than anything in Joshua’s arsenal. Conversely, Joshua is the better two handed puncher with a left hand that no doubt carries more finishing power. Joshua is the more polished technician with better form and technique, is more capable of accurately delivering his power consistently, and he has short power and doesn’t need as much room to do damage.

Something else Joshua and Wilder share is that neither is great defensively and each is vulnerable to what the other does well. Joshua is most vulnerable to cuffing/overhand rights and Wilder has been out-jabbed by many of his opponents. To date, neither has shown that they have a chin remotely close to the ones exhibited by George Foreman and Ron Lyle during their slug-fest for the ages. Joshua was dropped in his fight against Wladimir Klitschko and Wilder was dropped by Harold Sconiers, a journeyman with a losing record. Joshua was shook for a few seconds against Dillian Whyte before winning by stoppage and was jarred by Alexander Povetkin at the end of the first round in his last fight. As for Wilder, he was buzzed good by Artur Szpilka and, despite not going down, was close to being stopped by Luis Ortiz.

The point is both AJ and Deontay have more than enough power to get rid of the other inside the distance. Couple that with the fact that neither will have much trouble catching the other and there’s no way the fight can’t be action-packed. And it may be the millennial version of Foreman-Lyle, without them having to hit each other with as many clean bombs as George and Ron dropped on each other, simply because it’s doubtful Joshua or Wilder are as rugged or durable as they were. Obviously Wilder beating Fury affords fans an opportunity to see a more exciting fight pitting the top Brit and American heavyweights in the world against each other.

What if Fury beats Wilder?

If Fury wins and goes on to fight Joshua, the similarities to Frazier-Ali I are there as mentioned above. Fans would see theatrics and bombast that might even rival Ali’s behavior prior to taking on Frazier in the “Fight of The Century” back in 1971. And as we saw before he fought Wladimir Klitschko, Tyson Fury, like Ali, is quite good at getting under his opponent’s skin. Fury will say things about Joshua that will make Ali calling Frazier an “Uncle Tom” seem like a pleasantry.

The other thing Fury shares with Ali is that he enters the ring more with a mindset to embarrass and humiliate his opponents than to hurt or knock them out. Fury, if he were to fight Joshua, wouldn’t even entertain beating him by stoppage. He’d be focused on out- maneuvering and out-boxing him, mixed in with some facial taunts and body gyrations during the action, again emulating Ali.

Being the lineal champ who never lost the title in the ring, Fury actually makes for the more credible fight if he were to beat Wilder. That’s because a Wilder win could be seen as being a matter of Fury having not gained his championship form after having fought only twice after a long layoff. And the likelihood is if Fury can beat Wilder, it would be by decision in a fight that went the full 12 rounds. And if that’s the case, Fury, having shaken off even more rust, could be better going in against Joshua than he was going into the Wilder bout.

Fury vs. Joshua is clearly a bigger fight from a monetary and promotional vantage point than Wilder vs. Joshua could ever hope to be. Wilder isn’t as well-known worldwide as Fury and isn’t nearly the promoter or entertainer Tyson is. And in the UK, the place they’d more than likely fight, it would be accompanied by a holiday and festive atmosphere like no other fight in British history. That said, the actual bout wouldn’t be exciting at all. And just as when he fought Klitschko, Fury would enter the ring against Joshua with the intent to make him look bad and turn the bout into a wrestling match instead of beating Joshua up or knocking him out.

So there you have it. If you want to be entertained, root for Wilder to beat Fury. On the other hand if you want to experience some funny antics and be amused up until the first bell, than you want Fury to beat Wilder.

Lastly, if the Wilder-Fury fight does come off as scheduled and the winner really fights Joshua in April, it’ll be the quickest turnaround between two major heavyweight title fights in years, and whoever fights Joshua should get a lot of credit for taking the fight so soon.

Between 1977 and 1982, Frank Lotierzo had over 50 fights in the middleweight division. He trained at Joe Frazier’s gym in Philadelphia under the tutelage of the legendary George Benton. Before joining The Sweet Science his work appeared in several prominent newsstand and digital boxing magazines and he hosted “Toe-to-Toe” on ESPN Radio. Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@gmail.com

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Avila Perspective, Chap. 282: Ryan’s Song, Golden Boy in Fresno and More

Published

3 hours ago

April 26, 2024

David A. Avila

Avila-Perspective-Chap-282-Ryan's-Song-Golden-Boy-in-Fresno-and-More

Don’t call it an upset.

Days after Ryan Garcia proved the experts wrong, those same experts are re-tooling their evaluation processes.

It’s mind-boggling to me that 95 percent thought Garcia had no chance. Hear me out.

First, Garcia and Haney fought six times as amateurs with each winning three. But this time with no head gear and smaller gloves, Garcia had to have at least a 50/50 chance of winning. He is faster and a more powerful puncher.

Facts.

Haney is a wonderful boxer with smooth, almost artistic movements. But history has taught us power and speed like Garcia’s can’t be discounted. Think way back to legendary fighters like Willie Pep and Sandy Sadler. All that excellent defensive skill could not prevent Sadler from beating Pep in three of their four meetings.

Power has always been an equalizer against boxing skill.

Ben Lira, one of the wisest and most experienced trainers in Southern California, always professed knockout power was the greatest equalizer in a fight. “You can be behind for nine rounds and one punch can change the outcome,” he said.

Another weird theory spreading before the fight was that Garcia would quit in the fight. That was a puzzling one. Getting stopped by a perfect body shot is not quitting. And that punch came from Gervonta “Tank” Davis who can really crack.

So how did Garcia do it?

In the opening round Ryan Garcia timed Devin Haney’s jab and countered with a snapping left hook that rattled and wobbled the super lightweight champion. After that, Garcia forced Haney to find another game plan.

Garcia and trainer Derrick James must have worked hours on that move.

I must confess that I first saw Garcia’s ability many years ago when he was around 11 or 12. So I do have an advantage regarding his talent. A few things I noticed even back then were his speed and power. Also, that others resented his talent but respected him. He was the guy with everything: talent and looks.

And that brings resentment.

Recently I saw him and his crew rapping a song on social media. Now he’s got a song. Next thing you know Hollywood will be calling and he’ll be in the movies. It’s happened before with fighters such as Art Aragon, the first Golden Boy in the 50s. He was dating movie stars and getting involved with starlets all over Hollywood.

Is history repeating itself or is Garcia creating a new era for boxing?

Since 2016 people claimed he was just a social media creation. Now, after his win over Devin Haney a former undisputed lightweight champion and the WBC super lightweight titleholder, the boxer from the high desert area of Victorville has become one of the highest paid fighters in the world.

Ryan Garcia has entered a new dimension.

Golden Boy Season

After several down years the Los Angeles-based company Golden Boy Promotions suddenly is cracking the whip in 2024.

Avila

Vergil Ortiz Jr. (20-0, 20 KOs) returns to the ring and faces Puerto Rico’s Thomas Dulorme (26-6-1, 17 KOs) a welterweight gatekeeper who lost to Jaron “Boots” Ennis and Eimantas Stanionis. They meet as super welterweights in the co-main event at Save Mart Arena in Fresno, Calif. on Saturday, April 27. DAZN will stream the Golden Boy Promotions card live.

It’s a quick return to action for Ortiz who is still adjusting to the new weight division. His last fight three months ago ended in less than one round in Las Vegas. It was cut short by an antsy referee and left Ortiz wanting more after more than a year of inactivity in the prize ring.

Ortiz has all the weapons.

Also, Northern California’s Jose Carlos Ramirez (28-1, 18 KOs) meets Cuba’s Rances Barthelemy (30-2-1, 15 KOs) in a welterweight affair set for 12 rounds.

It’s difficult to believe that former super lightweight titlist Ramirez has been written off by fans after only one loss. That was several years ago against Scotland’s Josh Taylor. One loss does not mean the end of a career.

“My goal is to get back on top and to get all those belts back. I still feel like I am one of the best 140-pounders in the division,” said Ramirez who lives in nearby Avenal, Calif.

An added major attraction features Marlen Esparza in a unification rematch against Gabriela “La Chucky” Alaniz for the WBA, WBC, WBO flyweight titles. Their first fight was

a controversial win by Esparza that saw one judge give her nine of 10 rounds in a very close fight. Those Texas judges.

In a match that could steal the show, Oscar Duarte (26-2-1, 21 KOs) faces former world champion Jojo Diaz (33-5-1, 15 KOs) in a lightweight match.

Munguia and Canelo

Don’t sleep on this match.

Its current Golden Boy fighter Jaime Munguia facing former Golden Boy fighter Saul “Canelo” Alvarez in a battle between Mexico’s greatest sluggers next week at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas on May 4.

“I think Jaime Munguia is going to do something special in the ring,” said Oscar De La Hoya, the CEO for Golden Boy.

Tijuana’s Munguia showed up at the Wild Card Boxing gym in Hollywood where a throng of media from Mexico and the US met him.

Munguia looked confident and happy about his opportunity to fight great Canelo.

“It’s a hard fight,” said Munguia. “Truth is, its big for Mexico and not only for Mexicans but for boxing.”

Fights to Watch

Fri. DAZN 6 p.m. Yoeniz Tellez (7-0) vs Joseph Jackson (19-0).

Sat. DAZN 9:30 a.m. Peter McGrail (8-1) vs Marc Leach (18-3-1); Beatriz Ferreira (4-0) vs Yanina Del Carmen 14-3).

Sat. DAZN 5 p.m. Vergil Ortiz (20-0) vs Thomas Dulorme (26-6-1); Jose Carlos Ramirez (28-1) vs Rances Barthelemy (30-2-1); Marlen Esparza (14-1) vs Gabriela Alaniz (14-1).

Photo credit: Cris Esqueda / Golden Boy Promotions

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Ramon Cardenas Channels Micky Ward and KOs Eduardo Ramirez on ProBox

Published

2 days ago

April 24, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Ramon-Cardenas-Channels-Micky-Ward-and-KOs-Eduardo-Ramirez-on-ProBox

The Wednesday night bi-monthly series of fights on the ProBox TV platform is the best deal in boxing; the livestream is free with no strings attached! Tonight’s episode was headlined by a super bantamweight match between San Antonio’s Ramon Cardenas and Eduardo Ramirez who brought a caravan of rooters from his hometown in Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico.

Cardenas, coached by Joel Diaz, entered the contest ranked #4 by the WBA. He was expected to handle Ramirez with little difficulty, but this was a close, tactical fight through eight frames when lightning struck in the form of a left hook to the liver from Cardenas. Ramirez went down on one knee and wasn’t able to beat the count. It was as if Cardenas summoned the ghost of Micky Ward who had a penchant for terminating fights with the same punch that arrived out of the blue.

The official time was 1:37 of round nine. Cardenas improved to 25-1 with his14th win inside the distance. Ramirez, who was stopped in the opening round by Nick “Wrecking” Ball in London in his lone previous fight outside Mexico, falls to 23-3-3.

Co-Feature

In an upset, Tijuana super welterweight Damian Sosa won a split decision over previously undefeated Marques Valle, a local area fighter who was stepping up in class in his first 10-round go. Sosa was the aggressor, repeatedly backing his taller opponent into the ropes where Valle was unable to get good leverage behind his punches.

The 25-year-old Valle, managed by the influential David McWater, was the house fighter. This was his 10^th appearance in this building. He brought a 10-0 (7) record and was hoping to emulate the success of his younger brother Dominic Valle who scored a second-round stoppage of his opponent in this ring two weeks ago, improving to 9-0. But Sosa, who brought a 24-2 record, proved to be a bridge too high.

The judges had it 97-93 and 96-94 for the Tijuana invader and a disgraceful 98-92 for the house fighter.

Also

In a fight whose abrupt ending would be echoed by the main event, 34-year-old SoCal featherweight Ronny Rios, now training in Las Vegas, returned to the ring after a 22-month hiatus and scored a fifth-round stoppage over Nicolas Polanco of the Dominican Republic.

A three-punch combo climaxed by a left hook to the liver took the breath out of Polanco who slumped to his knees and was counted out. A two-time world title challenger, Rios advanced to 34-4 (17 KOs). Polanco, 34, declined to 21-6-1. The official time was 0:54 of round five.

—

The next ProBox show (Wednesday, May 8) will have an international cast with fighters from Kazakhstan, Japan, Mongolia, and the United Kingdom. In the main event, Liverpool’s Robbie Davies Jr will make his U.S. debut against the California-based Kazakh Sergey Lipinets.

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Haney-Garcia Redux with the Focus on Harvey Dock

Published

4 days ago

April 22, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Haney-Garcia-Redux-with-the-Focus-on-Harvey-Dock

Saturday’s skirmish between Ryan Garcia and WBC super lightweight champion Devin Haney was a messy affair, and yet a hugely entertaining fight fused with great drama. In the aftermath, Garcia and Haney were celebrated – the former for fooling all the experts and the latter for his gallant performance in a losing effort – but there were only brickbats for the third man in the ring, referee Harvey Dock.

Devin Haney was plainly ahead heading into the seventh frame when there was a sudden turnabout when Garcia put him on the canvas with his vaunted left hook. Moments later, Dock deducted a point from Garcia for a late punch coming out of a break. The deduction forced a temporary cease-fire that gave Haney a few precious seconds to regain his faculties. Before the round was over, Haney was on the deck twice more but these were ruled slips.

The deduction, which effectively negated the knockdown, struck many as too heavy-handed as Dock hadn’t previously issued a warning for this infraction. Moreover, many thought he could have taken a point away from Haney for excessive clinching. As for Haney’s second and third trips to the canvas in round seven, they struck this reporter – watching at home – as borderline, sufficient to give referee Dock the benefit of the doubt.

In a post-fight interview, Ryan Garcia faulted the referee for denying him the satisfaction of a TKO. “At the end of the day, Harvey Dock, I think he was tripping,” said Garcia. “He could have stopped that fight.”

Those that played the rounds proposition, placing their coin on the “under,” undoubtedly felt the same way.

The internet lit up with comments assailing Dock’s competence and/or his character. Some of the ponderings were whimsical, but they were swamped by the scurrilous screeching of dolts who find a conspiracy under every rock.

Stephen A. Smith, reputedly America’s highest-paid TV sports personality, was among those that felt a need to weigh-in: “This referee is absolutely terrible….Unreal! Horrible officiating,” tweeted Stephen A whose primary area of expertise is basketball.

Harvey Dock

Dock fought as an amateur and had one professional fight, winning a four-round decision over a fellow novice on a show at a non-gaming resort in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. He says that as an amateur he was merely average, but he was better than that, a New Jersey and regional amateur champion in 1993 and 1994 while a student New Jersey’s Essex County Community College where he majored in journalism.

A passionate fan of Sugar Ray Leonard, he started officiating amateur fights in 1998 and six years later, at age 32, had his first documented action at the professional level, working low-level cards in New Jersey. The top boxing referees, to a far greater extent than the top judges, had long apprenticeships, having worked their way up from the boonies and Dock is no exception.

Per boxrec, Haney vs Garcia was Harvey Dock’s 364^th assignment in the pros and his forty-second world title fight. Some of those title fights were title in name only, they weren’t even main events, but, bit by bit, more lucrative offerings started coming his way.

On May 13, 2023, Dock worked his first fights in Nevada, a 4-rounder and then a 12-rounder on a card at the Cosmopolitan topped by the 140-pound title fight between Rolly Romero and Ismael Barroso. It was the first time that this reporter got to watch Dock in the flesh.

Ironically (in hindsight), the card would be remembered for the actions of a referee, in this case Tony Weeks who handled the main event. Barroso was winning the fight on all three cards when Weeks stepped in and waived it off in the ninth round after Romero cornered Barroso against the ropes and let loose a barrage of punches, none of which landed cleanly. Few “premature stoppages” were ever as garishly, nay ghoulishly, premature.

With all the brickbats raining down on Weeks, I felt a need to tamp down the noise by diverting attention away from Tony Weeks and toward Harvey Dock and took to the TSS Forum to share my thoughts. Referencing the 12-rounder, a robust junior welterweight affair between Batyr Akhmedov and Kenneth Sims Jr, I noted that Dock’s Las Vegas debut went smoothly. He glided effortlessly around the ring, making him inconspicuous, the mark of a good referee. (This post ran on May 15, two days after the fight.)

Folks at the Nevada State Athletic Commission were also paying attention. Dock was back in Las Vegas the following week to referee the lightweight title fight between Devin Haney and Vasyl Lomachenko and before the year was out, he would be tabbed to referee the biggest non-heavyweight fight of the year, the July 29 match in Las Vegas between Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr.

The Haney-Garcia fight wasn’t Harvey Dock’s best hour, I’ll concede that, but a closer look at his full body of work informs us that he is an outstanding referee.

—

While the Haney-Garcia bout was in progress, WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman threw everyone a curve ball, tweeting on “X” that Devin Haney would keep his title if he lost the fight. Everyone, including the TV commentators, was under the impression that the title would become vacant in the event that Haney lost.

Sulaiman cited the precedent of Corrales-Castillo II.

FYI: The Corrales-Castillo rematch, originally scheduled for June 3, 2005 and aborted on the day prior when Castillo failed to make weight, finally came off on Oct. 8 of that year, notwithstanding the fact that Castillo failed to make weight once again, scaling three-and-a-half pounds above the lightweight limit. He knocked out Corrales in the fourth round with a left hook that Las Vegas Review-Journal boxing writer Kevin Iole, alluding to the movie “Blazing Saddles,” described as Mongo-esque (translation: the punch would have knocked out a horse). After initially insisting on a rubber match, which had scant chance of happening, WBC president Jose Sulaiman, Mauricio’s late father, ruled that Corrales could keep his title.

Whether or not you agree with Mauricio Sulaiman’s rationale, the timing of his announcement was certainly awkward.

Haney’s mandatory is Spanish southpaw Sandor Martin (42-3, 15 KOs), a cutie best known for his 2021 upset of Mikey Garcia. A bout between Haney and Martin has the earmarks of a dull fight.

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