Countdown To Mayweather-Pacquiao: Why Bother Asking Star Fighters For Their Pick

Published

9 years ago

March 30, 2015

There used to be a time when star fighters had no qualms about giving their true thoughts as to who they felt would win in an upcoming super fight. Before the super fight by which all are measured, “Frazier vs. Ali,” back in 1971, Jerry Quarry and Oscar Bonavena were the two most recent opponents of both “Smokin” Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali, and neither hesitated as to who they were picking to win the much ballyhooed clash?

Quarry, who lost to Frazier in seven rounds in 1969 and Ali in three rounds in 1970, was adamant that Joe was too tough and rugged for Ali and would most likely stop him inside of 10 rounds.

Bonavena, who went the distance twice with Frazier in 1966 and 1968, and was stopped by Ali in the 15th round in 1970 saw it differently. Oscar said Ali was the true champion and the better fighter and picked him to beat Frazier without any reservation. Since Joe beat Muhammad the first time out, chalk one up for Quarry for picking the correct winner.

Today both Oscar and Jerry would hedge their pick for reasons that didn’t exist for big time fighters during the sixties, seventies, eighties and even the nineties. In 2015 they’d phrase their pick something like this, “if it ends inside of eight rounds, Frazier will be the winner – but if it goes the distance, than Ali will be the victor.” And the reason for that is, a lot of ex-star fighters make a lot of their post-fight money doing commentary, personal appearances and all sorts of different media work for what to them has to be considered easy money. So there are business reasons for them to circumspect. That’s why it’s so hard to gauge their true feelings about how a particular big fight might go between two of their colleagues. They’re not likely to let their real opinion get in the way of friendships and business dealings that go on indefinitely. Celebrity fighters all know each other and swim in the same waters year after year. They’re professionals.

The ‘hedge your pick’ practice is not limited to just fighters, it also applies to commentators and analyst too. I remember when Mr. “Tell It Like It Is” Teddy Atlas was asked who was going to win between heavyweight contenders David Tua and Michael Moore back in 2002, he essentially said he didn’t know, and that it could go either way (Tua knocked Moorer out 30 seconds into the first round in what was a very easy fight to handicap before the fact). After the fight, Atlas said he knew all along that Tua was going to destroy Moorer, but that, because Moorer was his friend, he lied to his entire listening audience so that he wouldn’t upset Michael.

Of course, for “Mr Ethics” “I Never Pull My Punches” Atlas, what he did was inexcusable. But for guys whose bread and butter are maintaining good diplomatic relationships, their caution isn’t surprising. And if the press is too stupid not to catch on, that’s their problem.

When it comes to asking fighters who will win a certain fight between two superstars, don’t ask other superstar fighters or fighters who fought both guys. Because most of the time they have an agenda and something to protect, they’ll seldom if ever convey their true feelings.

The below fighters are all former title holders and in Cotto’s case a current title holder. They’re well known and have fought both Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao in high profile PPV bouts. Here are some of the things they’ve said when asked for a prediction on the upcoming fight.

Ricky Hatton: …..”Either side could win as well as lose in the bout deemed as the “Fight of the Century.” That’s certainly not a pick. Hatton was stopped by both Pacquiao and Mayweather. If you’re Hatton, it makes you look better if Mayweather wins because you can say you were in the fight with him, and justify that you just got caught by Pacquiao. If Mayweather retires undefeated Hatton looks better.

Miguel Cotto: …..Says having Freddie Roach in his corner is a big plus and will ultimately result in a Pacquiao win. Cotto was stopped by Pacquiao and lost a decision to Mayweather, and is trained by Roach. If you’re Cotto, it makes you look better if Pacquiao wins because he beat you worse than Mayweather did. And there’s no way Cotto is going against his trainer’s fighter.

Shane Mosley: …..Has been all over the place picking the winner. Depending on the day, you’ll get a different answer. Mosley lost a decision to both Mayweather and Pacquiao. However, Shane is in a tough spot. He probably hurt Mayweather more than any other fighter ever did to date, but he basically mailed it in when he fought Pacquiao. Shane can finagle whoever wins into somehow making himself look better. If Mayweather retires undefeated, it will always be remembered that Mosley landed the best punch any fighter ever did on Floyd.

Oscar De La Hoya: …..Has picked Pacquiao, but when it comes to Mayweather, Oscar is about as objective as ESPN’s Skip Bayless. In other words objectivity is a foreign word to both of them regarding Floyd. De La Hoya lost a decision to Mayweather and was stopped by Pacquiao. Oscar really gave Floyd a close fight, but was taken apart by Pacquiao. However, he can claim he was drained from dropping too much weight when he fought Pacquiao, which is somewhat plausible. However, Oscar is less of a rival to Pacquiao than he is Mayweather, so there’s less bad blood between them. I don’t think De La Hoya, inside, has any love for either, but I doubt he wants to see Floyd retire undefeated.

Juan Manuel Marquez: …..Like his trainer Nacho Beristain, he is all over the place too, and depending on the day you get a different answer. Marquez is 1-2-1 against Pacquiao and lost a lopsided decision to Mayweather. If you’re Marquez, you want Pacquiao to win because of the four fights you’ve had against him. And it also makes you look better if your career rival, who you knocked dead the last time you fought, wins the biggest fight in the last 25 years. That, and you can justify losing the decision to Mayweather since he beat you at the weigh-in by coming in over the contracted weight.

The above illustrates just how common opponents, at least during this era, cannot be objective when it comes to them saying what they really think will happen between Mayweather and Pacquiao on May 2nd.

Then there are the star fighters who seem to hedge almost as much.

Sugar Ray Leonard: …..Said he gives the edge to Mayweather because he’s undefeated. I’m guessing that’s a hedge pick in favor of Mayweather. Some insight from arguably the best p4p fighter since 1980: I’m certain Leonard appreciates Mayweather’s style more than he does Pacquiao’s. But there are some dynamics in play between Leonard and the Mayweather’s, being that Ray knocked out Floyd’s father in 1978 when Jr. was a year old, and Leonard is often asked how he’d do against Floyd Jr.

Thomas Hearns:…..Said people are crazy if they believe Mayweather or Pacquiao could’ve competed with Ray, Marvin and myself during our era. Well, he didn’t make a pick on the fight, but you can’t dispute what he said. Is there any doubt that when Hearns watches Mayweather and Pacquiao fight, he believes that he would’ve beaten them both on the same night one after the other.

Marvin Hagler:…..Said Mayweather-Pacquiao is the biggest fight in boxing history. Again, no pick, but from a money generating standpoint, he’s right. Also, Hagler probably sees a lot of Sugar Ray Leonard in Mayweather and some of himself in Pacquiao. I believe deep down inside Marvin is rooting for Pacquiao to win.

Mike Tyson:….Thinks Manny’s aggression will test Floyd’s toughness like it’s never been tested before. And recently has said Manny’s perpetual motion will be too much for Mayweather. Sounds like a hedge towards Pacquiao? You know deep down inside Tyson likes Pacquiao’s style and approach to fighting more than he does Mayweather’s. I don’t think Tyson really cares who wins because he likes and respects all fighters.

Evander Holyfield:….Thinks Pacquiao will win because boxing doesn’t want Mayweather to retire undefeated. Well, at least he made a pick; I have to give him that. His reasoning is a little twisted, but I’ll take it. I guess boxing didn’t want him to lose the first time he fought Lennox Lewis. Just ask Eugenia Williams.

Bernard Hopkins:…..Mr. Inconsistent said Pacquiao’s KO at the hands of Marquez in 2012 has residual effects for the next 10 fights. A week later he said burn the tape it means nothing, Manny had a momentary lapse and got caught. No big deal. Oh, he also said if Mayweather survives the first three rounds, he’ll dominate Pacquiao the last six rounds. Not sure who Bernard picked, but I believe he sees more of himself in Mayweather than he does Pacquiao. I believe if pushed I think he’d pick Mayweather.

Roy Jones:…..Has said Floyd is smarter and better now in his advanced age because of all his experience. Is that a pick for Mayweather? Like Hopkins, I believe Roy sees more of himself in Mayweather than he does Pacquiao, but maybe like some others, Roy would like to see Mayweather lose once and not retire undefeated. If push comes to shove I believe Jones favors Mayweather to win.

As far as I’m concerned, you can keep all of their picks and shove ’em where the sun doesn’t shine, because not one of them is worth a damn. They weren’t the least bit forth-coming. And the reason for that is because they all have skin in the game for various reasons already mentioned.

If you want to hear from fighters who know what they’re talking about and who will give you an informed and honest opinion as to who will win the Mayweather-Pacquiao fight, I suggest you go into any good boxing gym, and ask veteran fighters with no horse in the race, and you’ll get solid predictions. Forget the stars above; I want to hear who Paulie Malinaggi thinks is going to win. Actually, I believe he’s on record picking Mayweather without hedging a bit, which isn’t the least bit surprising. I bet ex-fighters/title holders like Joe Calzaghe and Charles Brewer could provide well thought-out and honest opinions as to whom and why they favor a particular side in the upcoming Mayweather-Pacquiao bout.

I say why bother asking star fighters, past opponents or celebrities from the acting and music industries for their pick as to who will on May 2nd. The star fighters are judicious in their words because of friendships and business relationships, so they won’t be honest. The ex-opponents have a rooting interest so they won’t be forth coming, and the celebrities will pick their friends. I mean really, does Justin Bieber picking Mayweather or Tim Tebow picking Pacquiao really matter to you? It sure doesn’t to me!

Perhaps by the time this runs the above may have made a more authentic pick, but you can believe they’re not really giving you their true thoughts, for the reasons stated above and some that I didn’t even touch on.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

Post Views: 735

Frank Lotierzo

Ramon Cardenas Channels Micky Ward and KOs Eduardo Ramirez on ProBox

Published

13 hours ago

April 24, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Ramon-Cardenas-Channels-Micky-Ward-and-KOs-Eduardo-Ramirez-on-ProBox

The Wednesday night bi-monthly series of fights on the ProBox TV platform is the best deal in boxing; the livestream is free with no strings attached! Tonight’s episode was headlined by a super bantamweight match between San Antonio’s Ramon Cardenas and Eduardo Ramirez who brought a caravan of rooters from his hometown in Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico.

Cardenas, coached by Joel Diaz, entered the contest ranked #4 by the WBA. He was expected to handle Ramirez with little difficulty, but this was a close, tactical fight through eight frames when lightning struck in the form of a left hook to the liver from Cardenas. Ramirez went down on one knee and wasn’t able to beat the count. It was as if Cardenas summoned the ghost of Micky Ward who had a penchant for terminating fights with the same punch that arrived out of the blue.

The official time was 1:37 of round nine. Cardenas improved to 25-1 with his14th win inside the distance. Ramirez, who was stopped in the opening round by Nick “Wrecking” Ball in London in his lone previous fight outside Mexico, falls to 23-3-3.

Co-Feature

In an upset, Tijuana super welterweight Damian Sosa won a split decision over previously undefeated Marques Valle, a local area fighter who was stepping up in class in his first 10-round go. Sosa was the aggressor, repeatedly backing his taller opponent into the ropes where Valle was unable to get good leverage behind his punches.

The 25-year-old Valle, managed by the influential David McWater, was the house fighter. This was his 10^th appearance in this building. He brought a 10-0 (7) record and was hoping to emulate the success of his younger brother Dominic Valle who scored a second-round stoppage of his opponent in this ring two weeks ago, improving to 9-0. But Sosa, who brought a 24-2 record, proved to be a bridge too high.

The judges had it 97-93 and 96-94 for the Tijuana invader and a disgraceful 98-92 for the house fighter.

Also

In a fight whose abrupt ending would be echoed by the main event, 34-year-old SoCal featherweight Ronny Rios, now training in Las Vegas, returned to the ring after a 22-month hiatus and scored a fifth-round stoppage over Nicolas Polanco of the Dominican Republic.

A three-punch combo climaxed by a left hook to the liver took the breath out of Polanco who slumped to his knees and was counted out. A two-time world title challenger, Rios advanced to 34-4 (17 KOs). Polanco, 34, declined to 21-6-1. The official time was 0:54 of round five.

—

The next ProBox show (Wednesday, May 8) will have an international cast with fighters from Kazakhstan, Japan, Mongolia, and the United Kingdom. In the main event, Liverpool’s Robbie Davies Jr will make his U.S. debut against the California-based Kazakh Sergey Lipinets.

To comment on this story in the Fight Forum CLICK HERE

Post Views: 313

Haney-Garcia Redux with the Focus on Harvey Dock

Published

3 days ago

April 22, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Haney-Garcia-Redux-with-the-Focus-on-Harvey-Dock

Saturday’s skirmish between Ryan Garcia and WBC super lightweight champion Devin Haney was a messy affair, and yet a hugely entertaining fight fused with great drama. In the aftermath, Garcia and Haney were celebrated – the former for fooling all the experts and the latter for his gallant performance in a losing effort – but there were only brickbats for the third man in the ring, referee Harvey Dock.

Devin Haney was plainly ahead heading into the seventh frame when there was a sudden turnabout when Garcia put him on the canvas with his vaunted left hook. Moments later, Dock deducted a point from Garcia for a late punch coming out of a break. The deduction forced a temporary cease-fire that gave Haney a few precious seconds to regain his faculties. Before the round was over, Haney was on the deck twice more but these were ruled slips.

The deduction, which effectively negated the knockdown, struck many as too heavy-handed as Dock hadn’t previously issued a warning for this infraction. Moreover, many thought he could have taken a point away from Haney for excessive clinching. As for Haney’s second and third trips to the canvas in round seven, they struck this reporter – watching at home – as borderline, sufficient to give referee Dock the benefit of the doubt.

In a post-fight interview, Ryan Garcia faulted the referee for denying him the satisfaction of a TKO. “At the end of the day, Harvey Dock, I think he was tripping,” said Garcia. “He could have stopped that fight.”

Those that played the rounds proposition, placing their coin on the “under,” undoubtedly felt the same way.

The internet lit up with comments assailing Dock’s competence and/or his character. Some of the ponderings were whimsical, but they were swamped by the scurrilous screeching of dolts who find a conspiracy under every rock.

Stephen A. Smith, reputedly America’s highest-paid TV sports personality, was among those that felt a need to weigh-in: “This referee is absolutely terrible….Unreal! Horrible officiating,” tweeted Stephen A whose primary area of expertise is basketball.

Harvey Dock

Dock fought as an amateur and had one professional fight, winning a four-round decision over a fellow novice on a show at a non-gaming resort in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. He says that as an amateur he was merely average, but he was better than that, a New Jersey and regional amateur champion in 1993 and 1994 while a student New Jersey’s Essex County Community College where he majored in journalism.

A passionate fan of Sugar Ray Leonard, he started officiating amateur fights in 1998 and six years later, at age 32, had his first documented action at the professional level, working low-level cards in New Jersey. The top boxing referees, to a far greater extent than the top judges, had long apprenticeships, having worked their way up from the boonies and Dock is no exception.

Per boxrec, Haney vs Garcia was Harvey Dock’s 364^th assignment in the pros and his forty-second world title fight. Some of those title fights were title in name only, they weren’t even main events, but, bit by bit, more lucrative offerings started coming his way.

On May 13, 2023, Dock worked his first fights in Nevada, a 4-rounder and then a 12-rounder on a card at the Cosmopolitan topped by the 140-pound title fight between Rolly Romero and Ismael Barroso. It was the first time that this reporter got to watch Dock in the flesh.

Ironically (in hindsight), the card would be remembered for the actions of a referee, in this case Tony Weeks who handled the main event. Barroso was winning the fight on all three cards when Weeks stepped in and waived it off in the ninth round after Romero cornered Barroso against the ropes and let loose a barrage of punches, none of which landed cleanly. Few “premature stoppages” were ever as garishly, nay ghoulishly, premature.

With all the brickbats raining down on Weeks, I felt a need to tamp down the noise by diverting attention away from Tony Weeks and toward Harvey Dock and took to the TSS Forum to share my thoughts. Referencing the 12-rounder, a robust junior welterweight affair between Batyr Akhmedov and Kenneth Sims Jr, I noted that Dock’s Las Vegas debut went smoothly. He glided effortlessly around the ring, making him inconspicuous, the mark of a good referee. (This post ran on May 15, two days after the fight.)

Folks at the Nevada State Athletic Commission were also paying attention. Dock was back in Las Vegas the following week to referee the lightweight title fight between Devin Haney and Vasyl Lomachenko and before the year was out, he would be tabbed to referee the biggest non-heavyweight fight of the year, the July 29 match in Las Vegas between Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr.

The Haney-Garcia fight wasn’t Harvey Dock’s best hour, I’ll concede that, but a closer look at his full body of work informs us that he is an outstanding referee.

—

While the Haney-Garcia bout was in progress, WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman threw everyone a curve ball, tweeting on “X” that Devin Haney would keep his title if he lost the fight. Everyone, including the TV commentators, was under the impression that the title would become vacant in the event that Haney lost.

Sulaiman cited the precedent of Corrales-Castillo II.

FYI: The Corrales-Castillo rematch, originally scheduled for June 3, 2005 and aborted on the day prior when Castillo failed to make weight, finally came off on Oct. 8 of that year, notwithstanding the fact that Castillo failed to make weight once again, scaling three-and-a-half pounds above the lightweight limit. He knocked out Corrales in the fourth round with a left hook that Las Vegas Review-Journal boxing writer Kevin Iole, alluding to the movie “Blazing Saddles,” described as Mongo-esque (translation: the punch would have knocked out a horse). After initially insisting on a rubber match, which had scant chance of happening, WBC president Jose Sulaiman, Mauricio’s late father, ruled that Corrales could keep his title.

Whether or not you agree with Mauricio Sulaiman’s rationale, the timing of his announcement was certainly awkward.

Haney’s mandatory is Spanish southpaw Sandor Martin (42-3, 15 KOs), a cutie best known for his 2021 upset of Mikey Garcia. A bout between Haney and Martin has the earmarks of a dull fight.

To comment on this story in the Fight Forum, CLICK HERE

Post Views: 848

In a Shocker, Ryan Garcia Confounds the Experts and Upsets Devin Haney

Published

4 days ago

April 21, 2024

David A. Avila

In-a-Shocker-Ryan-Garcia-Confounds-the-Experts-and-Upsets-Devin-Haney

Its good to be crazy. Like a fox.

Ryan “KingRy” Garcia knocked down WBC super lightweight titlist Devin Haney three times to remind everyone of his fighting abilities in winning by majority decision on Saturday.

“I just knew what I could do,” Garcia said.

Fans will not forget the lanky kid from Victorville, California now.

Garcia (25-1, 20 KOs) fooled everyone in playing crazy weeks before the fight, then showed shocking power to hand Haney (30-1, 15 KOs) his first loss as a professional at Barclays Center in Brooklyn.

Haney’s WBC super lightweight title was not at stake for Garcia because he weighed three pounds over the limit.

After Garcia seemingly acting out of control on social media, Haney’s guard must have slipped in the first round during the first few seconds as Garcia connected with that hellish left hook and Haney, with a look of shock in his eyes, almost went down. He barely survived the first round.

“He caught me with it,” said Haney.

During the next few rounds, Haney proceeded to advance toward Garcia seemingly fully aware of the lethal left hook. He used feints and rights to score with a busier approach as Garcia seemed cocked and ready to counter with a left hook.

In the fourth round it seemed Haney was confident he had regained control of the fight, but every time he opened up with more than a two-punch combination Garcia reminded him whose hands were faster and more dangerous.

Though Garcia seldom jabbed he seemed bent on looking for the right moment to unleash his deadly left hook. And every time the Southern California fighter opened up with a combination he scored and Haney dare not exchange.

A few times Haney smiled as if signifying he escaped.

In the seventh round Haney looked to punish Garcia’s body and instead was met with a three-punch combination included a left hook to the chin and down went Haney slumped on the ground. He managed to beat the count and as soon as Garcia came within reach Haney wrapped his arms around him with a python grip. Despite the warnings by referee Harvey Dock, the fallen fighter would not release and Garcia impatiently fired a weak punch during the break. The referee deducted a point from Garcia though he could have deducted a point from Haney for not obeying his instructions to release his hold. Haney actually went down three times in the round but only one was counted by the referee.

From that point on Haney was very cautious but still looking to win by decision.

Though Garcia kept using a shoulder-roll defense that left his body exposed, he would retaliate with three and four punch combinations that usually Haney could defend against other fighters.. But Garcia’s blazing combinations were too fast to defend.

In the 10^th round Haney looked to attack and was countered by Garcia’s right and a blinding left hook to the chin and another two blows that sent the former undisputed lightweight champion to the floor again.

It didn’t look good for Haney to survive.

Garcia walked into the 11^th round still composed and never out-of-control He dared Haney to exchange and when within striking distance Garcia unleashed another lightning combination and down went Haney again with a defeated look.

Both fighters had fought each other as amateurs six times so there were no surprises between them. But Garcia’s power and speed were superior and that was the difference in a professional fight.

In the final round both were cautious with Garcia’s combination punching proving too dangerous for Haney to open up. Garcia celebrated early as the round ended confident of victory.

After 12 rounds Garcia was seen the victor by majority decision 112-112, 114-110, 115-109.

“You really thought I was crazy,” Garcia told the interviewer and the crowd. “You guys hated on me.”

Other Bouts

Arnold Barboza (30-0) won a curious split decision victory over United Kingdom’s Sean McComb (18-2) in a 10-round super lightweight fight. McComb’s long reach and busy southpaw style gave Barboza trouble. But he managed to win the fight though the crowd was not pleased.

Bektemir Melikuziev (14-1, 10 KOs) defeated France’s Pierre Dibombe (22-1-1) by technical decision after eight rounds due to a cut on his eye from an accidental head butt. It was a very competitive super middleweight fight.

Costa Rica’s David Jimenez (16-1, 11 KOs) outworked John “Scrappy Ramirez (13-1, 9 KOs) in a 12-round scrap to upset the Los Angeles based fighter. After a few close rounds Jimenez simply bullied his way inside and forced Ramirez against the ropes and unloaded his guns.

After 12 rounds two judges saw it 117-111 and 116-114 all for Jimenez.

“I’m a hard-working man from Cartago I come from nothing,” said Jimenez. “My corner told me I had to work inside.”

Charles Conwell (19-0, 14 KOs) stepped on the gas early with vicious body shots and uppercuts and blasted through the resilient Nathaniel Gallimore (22-8-1, 17 KOs) for several rounds. After a brutal fifth and sixth round the referee halted the one-side beating in favor of Conwell who was fighting for the first time under the Golden Boy banner.

Another winner was Sergiy Derevyanchenko (15-5) by decision over Vaughn Alexander (18-11-1) in a super middleweight match.

To comment on this story in the Forum CLICK HERE

Post Views: 1,190