Pacquiao vs. Mayweather: Who’s the Best of the Era?

Published

10 years ago

October 21, 2013

Al Bernstein knows more about boxing than me. To be totally fair to him, it’s probably safe to say the recently inducted Hall of Famer has actually forgotten more about boxing at this point in his storied career than I know in total.

Bernstein has done it all as a boxing media member, and he’s done it well. He started as a newspaperman in the 1970s. Soon, he was contributing to Boxing Illustrated and RING Magazine. From 1980 to 1998, he was analyst and host of ESPN’s Top Rank Boxing show. In fact, from 1980 to 2003, Bernstein was the primary voice of boxing for ESPN. And, as you well know, since 2003 Bernstein has been lead boxing analyst for Showtime. He’s also the primary face and leader of our sister site, Boxing Channel.

Like I said, he’s done it all.

One of his signature shows over at ESPN was the Big Fights Boxing Hour. He wrote and hosted 26 episodes of the program, which chronicled some of the biggest fights in boxing history. Honestly, my first encounter with many of the finer points of boxing history came through watching these shows, where old-time masters like Sugar Ray Robinson and Jack Dempsey came to life again through the magic of film.

So when I chatted with Bernstein recently, I couldn’t help but ask him to compare legacies between the two preeminent fighters of this era, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao. Who is the greatest of this era, as of today? If I’m honest with myself, I was probably hoping Bernstein would validate my opinion on the matter: Mayweather is an all-time great, but Pacquiao is an all-time greater.

Look, I’m not saying Pacquiao (seen running stairs in Beijing with Brandon Rios, in Chris Farina-Top Rank snap) would’ve beaten Mayweather at welterweight back when the fight should’ve happened around 2009-10. (I’m not not saying it either). But I submit to you, dear reader, that Pacquiao’s wins, both the men he fought and when he fought them, measure slightly better than Mayweather’s grand accomplishment of staying undefeated.

Sure, it’s close. But Pacquiao’s three best wins before he moved up to welterweight (Barrera, Morales and Marquez) are better than any one win Mayweather has enjoyed over his entire career. Right?

And his losses? Give me the fighter who tests himself over the one that doesn’t. I want to see a fighter go beyond his limits, and when he reaches them and gets knocked to the ground, I want to see if he can get back up again.

But what does Bernstein say on the matter? First, I asked him about the fight that never got made. What would a Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Superfight have looked like back in 2009?

“That would’ve been fun,” Bernstein said. “I always thought that version of Manny Pacquiao had a chance to do rather well against Mayweather. I mean, I may have been wrong based on what has transpired since, but I always thought that the fight would have been really interesting during that time period because of the speed and activity of Pacquiao. That was an A level fighter in Manny Pacquiao who had confidence that was skyrocketing and all the rest of it.”

So Pacquiao is on the same level as Mayweather at welterweight? Among the greatest of the greats?

“Now at those weight divisions, [Pacquiao] is not a Ray Leonard or a Tommy Hearns or a Roberto Duran. Down at featherweight, around those areas, to me he is one of the biggest superstars of all-time along with Barrera, Marquez and Morales. He’s not [quite at that level] at the higher weights, but still terrific.”

Bernstein doesn’t consider Pacquiao an all-time great welterweight, but gives high praise to the Pacquiao of lower divisions.

“Pacquiao had two different careers. The first one was with all those great fighters when they created what I consider to be a mini-version of the 1980s thing of the Four Kings [Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Leonard]. He ended up having the best record of that whole crew, so you have to give him his props. At the end of the day, he was the best of that group probably by a narrow margin.”

Still, Bernstein doesn’t seem quite ready to jump on the Pacquiao train, so I push the issue. Don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s career a bit differently? I mean, head-to-head is one thing, but don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s legacy at the lighter weights and Mayweather’s at the heavier? And doesn’t what Pacquiao accomplished later in his career bolster his case of being best of the era?

“When he moved up in weight, he had some amazing performances. But with Mayweather, because he’s still winning and winning convincingly…you have to take the whole body of work. Mayweather’s had these long layoffs and all the rest, so he’s managed his body better in a lot of ways…but at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Mayweather’s beaten everybody. Now, were there times when you’d have liked to see him fight Fighter A instead of Fighter B? Definitely. And were there a couple of people that he used what I like to call the Angelo Dundee theory of management of trying to get everyone at exactly the right time? Yes. He did all that. But at the end of the day, he’s going to have glittery names on his resume. Isn’t he?”

It’s true. Mayweather does have a bevy of big names on his unblemished record. De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, and Cotto are nothing to scoff at. Moreover, he’s just about dominated every single one of them. His wins might not carry watchers to the peak of excitement the way a fighter like Pacquiao does, but Mayweather is the sweetest scientist of his day. In fact, Bernstein argues that Mayweather is so good at what he does, he fools the audience into thinking he’s not standing right in front of his opponents for most of the fight.

“When you dissect a Mayweather fight, when you go back and look at it, he spends a lot of time in the pocket. It’s not as if he’s dancing the whole time. He will move strategically when he wants to, and what he does, if you look at it, his plan is always the same: He might give a round or two early…and then he wins all those rounds in the middle. He does it not by moving, but by landing punches, by slipping, by doing all the things he does and letting the guy know: ‘look, you’re in here, but you’re not going to hit me as much as you want.’ Then, in the later rounds, he’ll employ a little more movement. It’s not running, but employing more movement. Because now…he’s banked a lot of rounds and he now feels like he can peck away and win the rounds he needs to win at the end. So it gives the illusion of how he ran when in reality he didn’t. That’s the part that fascinates me.”

Bernstein said part of the problem is that Mayweather, 36, has never had to face a truly great fighter in his prime. So the entertainment value of a Mayweather fight is reduced to simply witnessing how much better he is than the person standing in front of him. And while Pacquiao had great rivals in the prime of his career, men who tested his limits, fans have missed out on seeing how Mayweather would react facing the same thing.

Bernstein has a point. In 2012, when Miguel Cotto had the audacity to bloody Mayweather’s nose with a steady and stiff jab, for fans it was as if Gatti-Ward was unfolding right in front of their eyes. The excitement was downright palpable, despite the fight being a clear and wide UD win for Mayweather. Why? Because Mayweather so seldom looks as if he’s actually in a fight.

“That’s why, to be honest, sometimes he’s doing great but also it’s the level of opposition. We don’t have a superstar in this era [for him to fight]. We have a lot of terrific fighters, Canelo among them. They’re very good at their craft and fun to watch. We don’t have another A-plus level fighter in those weight divisions. If we had an Andre Ward down there, or someone like that, then it would probably be a great matchup. If we had a Tommy Hearns and a Sugar Ray Leonard or a Roberto Duran or an Aaron Pryor – if we had some of those people, we’d have a better chance of seeing the match we want to have with Mayweather.”

Last month, we were hoping Canelo Alvarez would help give us exactly that. Yet, while the 23-year-old appeared to have all the tools necessary to give Mayweather a stern test, the 12-round bout devolved into that of just about any other Mayweather fight: absolute dominance.

“I thought Canelo squandered his moment in time by fighting the wrong tactical fight,” Bernstein said. “I don’t know if he’d have done any better, but why he did that, I have no idea.”

Still, Bernstein said the stage for the fight, which he called from ringside for Showtime, was up there with any big fight in boxing history.

“That one was right up there with any of them. The level of excitement leading up to it, that weigh-in scene where they open up the entire arena and I couldn’t hear a word Brian Kenny was saying and I had to read his lips because of the noise…it was pretty extraordinary. And because the mainstream sports media covered it, it added another dimension to it, too. The whole event was as exciting as the great fights in the 80s I worked on featuring Hearns, Hagler, Leonard and Duran. Now, that was a different time. There was no social media and the immediacy of coverage, but still those were huge events and spectacular…this one was right at the top of the list.”

It seems Bernstein can’t say enough good things about Mayweather.

“He’s remarkable. He’s 36 years old, pushing 37, and you could never imagine somebody fighting this precisely, this well and this athletically at that age.”

Still, though, all this talk about the Four Kings…these guys were all great, and they all fought each other to prove both to themselves and to the world, which man was the greatest of the era. Isn’t this whole issue, the legacies of Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, something that could’ve and should’ve been settled in the ring back when it might have been the biggest fight in boxing history? Didn’t Pacquiao, the version that butchered Ricky Hatton and tossed Miguel Cotto around the ring like a ragdoll…didn’t he stand the best chance of knocking Mayweather off his throne?

“We would have liked to find out,” said Bernstein, and in the end, it appears we at least agree on that.

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Kelsey McCarson

Avila Perspective, Chap. 254: Canelo vs Jermell Charlo in a Battle of Undisputed Champions

Published

20 hours ago

September 29, 2023

David A. Avila

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LAS VEGAS-Less than the usual massive crowd gathered for boxing kingpin Saul “Canelo” Alvarez and Jermell Charlo in the desert heat outside of the T-Mobile Arena on Friday afternoon. Usually the weigh-ins are slightly bigger for Mexico’s idol.

Is the declining crowd an indicator of Alvarez fans ebbing belief in his abilities?

Still, on Saturday night, two undisputed world champions from differing divisions will collide as Guadalajara, Mexico’s Alvarez (59-2-2, 39 KOs) meets Houston’s Charlo (35-1-1, 19 KOs) at T-Mobile Arena for the super middleweight world championship. PPV.Com will stream the clash of champions.

This year has seen a hyper-speed uptick in champions fighting other champions, perhaps the result of watching their female counterparts Amanda Serrano and Katie Taylor produce the biggest fight of 2022. This year several marquee collisions were spawned from lightweights to heavyweights.

Or maybe the pandemic lull created a twitch panic among the elite.

Charlo was one of those who had been sidelined while others like Gervonta “Tank” Davis, Naoya “Monster” Inoue and Canelo Alvarez filled their pockets with cash. And others like Devin Haney and Teofimo Lopez gained undisputed glory.

Instead of watching on the sidelines, Charlo decided to make his move for greater glory by attempting to dethrone one of the top pound-for-pound fighters in the world, if not the kingpin of boxing when it comes to money.

“If I accomplish this massive goal, it will be hard to top,” Charlo said a few weeks ago during his media workout. “I’ll be in the record book with the greats of boxing for a long time.”

Risks brings rewards.

Canelo, long a member of the boxing elite, has held his position as the box office king for many years now by taking the daunting risks throughout his boxing life.

“Jermell is right, I have nothing to prove. But this time I have something to prove to him,” said Alvarez while in Las Vegas on Wednesday. “He never believed in my skills. He’s been calling me out. Now I have an opportunity to show him my skills.”

Undisputed super welterweight will challenge undisputed super middleweight in a two-division jump not often seen, except for Henry Armstrong, Roberto Duran and Sugar Shane Mosley. It’s the road taken by those who seek to be great.

Both are 33 but the redhead Alvarez has been fighting professionally since he was 15. That’s a lot of bullets in the chamber he has already used. Charlo has height, speed and the ability to adapt to different styles. Stylistically, it’s a battle that makes even the skeptics take pause.

It all depends on Alvarez’s resiliency. Charlo has ring rust, while Alvarez seemingly has lost the hunger. Whose weakness will prove the greater?

“Now is the time for this fight. We’re in our primes and at our best,” said Charlo. “I wanna shake the doubters off and prove to the world why I”m in this position. There’s a reason I made it this far.”

Alvarez remembers being as hungry as Charlo.

“I never overlook any fighter,” Alvarez said. “I know what he’s going to bring and I’m ready.”

Undercard

Several other notable bouts are included on the pay-per-view card.

Former world titlists and current welterweight contenders Yordenis Ugas (27-5) and Mario Barrios (27-2) battle for an interim title set for 12 rounds.

Super welterweights Jesus Ramos (20-0, 16 KOs) and Erickson Lubin (25-2, 18 KOs) match skills in a match that pits a southpaw veteran against an undefeated southpaw from Arizona. For the past three years Ramos has been moving up the ladder and was last seen pounding out highly-touted Joey Spencer. Can he survive Lubin who nearly toppled Sebastian Fundora?

Doors open at T-Mobile Arena at 2 p.m. Pacific Time.

Lampley is back

Legendary HBO announcer Jim Lampley was hired along with ace reporter Lance Pugmire who will co-host the Saul “Canelo” Alvarez versus Jermell Charlo showdown via viewer chat live on PPV.com.

It’s the same concept used by Monday Night Football that features former quarterback greats Peyton Manning and Eli Manning in alternative programming.

Lampley returns to boxing after a five-year absence following HBO’s yanking of the popular program that vaulted elite boxing to the top behind the likes of George Foreman, Oscar De La Hoya and Manny Pacquiao.

The veteran announcer will be live streaming all the action on media platforms before and during the fight action. He was sorely missed by all who follow the sweet science.

Photo credit: Al Applerose

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Tyson Fury vs Oleksandr Usyk a Go for Saudi Arabia: Date TBA

Published

1 day ago

September 29, 2023

Arne K. Lang

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It is now official. Representatives of WBC and Lineal heavyweight champion Tyson Fury and WBO/WBA/IBF title-holder Oleksandr Usyk have come to terms. The Fury-Usyk fight will be staged at Kingdom Arena in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia on a date to be determined. (Speculation centers around Dec. 23.)

Fury vs Usyk is the latest addition to Riyadh Season, a months-long, state-sponsored, city-wide entertainment and sports festival that commences this year on Oct. 28 with the fight between Tyson Fury and MMA star Francis Ngannou serving as the centerpiece of the grand opening ceremony.

A point that will be central to the pre-fight hype is that more than three decades have passed since boxing had a unified heavyweight champion. The last man to be recognized as such was Lennox Lewis who unified the title in November of 1999 when he won a unanimous decision over Evander Holyfield at the Thomas and Mack Center in Las Vegas. Lewis entered the contest sporting the WBC belt whereas Holyfield held the WBA and IBF diadems.

As noted in boxrec, the vacant IBO heavyweight title was also at stake, a fact acknowledged in most British pre- and post-fight reports, but largely omitted from stories in American papers. As for the WBO, which was born the same year as the Florida-based IBO and came to leapfrog past it in credibility, it was out of the loop. Their heavyweight champion was Vitali Klitschko who had won the belt from Herbie Hyde.

The Lewis-Holyfield fight in Las Vegas was a rematch. They had fought eight months earlier at Madison Square Garden. That fight was ruled a draw, a decision deemed so unjust to Lennox Lewis that it spawned a federal investigation.

The tentative Dec. 23 date for Fury-Usyk would be a quick turnaround for the Gypsy King but would give him two months to heal in the event that he emerges from his non-title fight with Ngannou with a facial cut or another issue requiring medical attention. As noted in a story in the London Mirror, the date of Dec. 23 has also been bandied about as the likely date for the resurrection of the aborted fight between Chris Eubank Jr and Conor Benn. Something would have to give and it wouldn’t be Fury-Usyk.

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Atlantic City Welcomes the 7th Annual Boxing Hall of Fame Weekend

Published

2 days ago

September 28, 2023

Luis A. Cortes III

Atlantic-City-Welcomes-the-7th-Annual-Boxing-Hall-of-Fame-Weekend

While the world of boxing will be focused on Las Vegas and the mega showdown between two undisputed champions, across the country Atlantic City will play host to the seventh annual Hall-of-Fame Induction Weekend. This year’s festivities are highlighted by the celebration of heavyweight boxers that once helped make Atlantic City the leading destination for “big time” fights. At the top of this year’s class are names like George Foreman, David Tua, Shannon Briggs, and Pinklon Thomas. With names like these, it’s easy to understand why this year’s Induction Weekend, now a staple of the city’s entertainment calendar, figures to be the best ever.

Ray McCline, a lifelong boxing fan, is the brainchild behind the event which has matured beyond the infancy stage. For McCline (himself a 2022 inductee into the New Jersey Boxing Hall of Fame), creating an entire weekend around the sport in a way that could also benefit the city financially was a no-brainer.

“It’s great to see what this weekend has become. It’s been a long road from the original idea, but with great support and partnerships, it’s been possible,” states McCline.

In the past the ACBHOF has had to be as nimble as some of the fighters that they’ve honored to continue making sure the weekend wasn’t lost in the shadows of a city that has dealt with economic struggles. McCline and his staff at the ACBHOF have done an excellent job integrating the history of boxing with the history of Atlantic City. They’ve done this by offering fans the opportunity to spend more than just one evening immersed in the culture of the sport.

“It continues to grow and get better and that’s what it’s all about; making this the type of weekend that boxing fans mark on their calendars each year. This year we’re fortunate to partner with Hard Hitting Promotions to provide a great night of live professional boxing for fans as well,” says McCline. It’s the type of addition to an already full weekend schedule that only strengthens the ACBHOF brand.

A partnership with the Hard Rock Hotel and Casino has also been a key to recent enhancements for the weekend of events.

After years of having to adapt the schedule to the schedules of their host properties, having this partnership with Hard Rock has allowed for the ACBHOF to lock in the final weekend of September or first weekend of October which is important because it allows fans to plan out their post summer and pre-holiday schedules without having to skip their trip to Atlantic City. “A major bonus,” says McCline. “It was one of the major hurdles that we had to jump over. Integrating Hard Rock and their established relationships in the world of entertainment only benefits both parties.”

It’s a fact that isn’t lost when you see crowds of concert-goers and people arriving in the city for other events enter the Free Fan Expo that takes place prior to the award ceremony.

Which brings us to this year’s schedule of events. Tomorrow (Friday, Sept. 29) will be the customary V.I.P opening cocktail reception followed by the live fights at Bally’s Casino. On Saturday at Hard Rock is the free Fight Fan Experience which allows fans to interact with legends of the sport from the past and fighters of today and tomorrow. During the evening hours. the actual awards and induction ceremony will take place at the Hard Rock. The weekend activities culminate in a legends brunch on Sunday morning at the Blue Water Grille at the Flagship Hotel.

What’s going on in Las Vegas isn’t lost on McCline. “This year is going to be great for those attending the induction ceremony at the V.I.P. level. We were able to set up our post ceremony cocktail reception in conjunction with showing the Canelo-Charlo fight. At the end of the day, we’re all fans of the sport so why miss a historic fight?”

Just listening to the joy that springs from the voice of Ray McCline when discussing both this year’s event and plans for the future is refreshing, especially when one considers all of the roadblocks that he’s overcome to bring his vision to reality in the form of a full weekend of celebration.

Note: The main event of the boxing show on Friday is a 10-round contest between super lightweights Branden Pizarro (18-1-1) and Esteban Garcia (16-2). For more information on event tickets, room reservations, and weekend schedules, visit the Atlantic City Boxing Hall of Fame website at: www.acbhof.com

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