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Pacquiao vs. Mayweather: Who’s the Best of the Era?
Al Bernstein knows more about boxing than me. To be totally fair to him, it’s probably safe to say the recently inducted Hall of Famer has actually forgotten more about boxing at this point in his storied career than I know in total.
Bernstein has done it all as a boxing media member, and he’s done it well. He started as a newspaperman in the 1970s. Soon, he was contributing to Boxing Illustrated and RING Magazine. From 1980 to 1998, he was analyst and host of ESPN’s Top Rank Boxing show. In fact, from 1980 to 2003, Bernstein was the primary voice of boxing for ESPN. And, as you well know, since 2003 Bernstein has been lead boxing analyst for Showtime. He’s also the primary face and leader of our sister site, Boxing Channel.
Like I said, he’s done it all.
One of his signature shows over at ESPN was the Big Fights Boxing Hour. He wrote and hosted 26 episodes of the program, which chronicled some of the biggest fights in boxing history. Honestly, my first encounter with many of the finer points of boxing history came through watching these shows, where old-time masters like Sugar Ray Robinson and Jack Dempsey came to life again through the magic of film.
So when I chatted with Bernstein recently, I couldn’t help but ask him to compare legacies between the two preeminent fighters of this era, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao. Who is the greatest of this era, as of today? If I’m honest with myself, I was probably hoping Bernstein would validate my opinion on the matter: Mayweather is an all-time great, but Pacquiao is an all-time greater.
Look, I’m not saying Pacquiao (seen running stairs in Beijing with Brandon Rios, in Chris Farina-Top Rank snap) would’ve beaten Mayweather at welterweight back when the fight should’ve happened around 2009-10. (I’m not not saying it either). But I submit to you, dear reader, that Pacquiao’s wins, both the men he fought and when he fought them, measure slightly better than Mayweather’s grand accomplishment of staying undefeated.
Sure, it’s close. But Pacquiao’s three best wins before he moved up to welterweight (Barrera, Morales and Marquez) are better than any one win Mayweather has enjoyed over his entire career. Right?
And his losses? Give me the fighter who tests himself over the one that doesn’t. I want to see a fighter go beyond his limits, and when he reaches them and gets knocked to the ground, I want to see if he can get back up again.
But what does Bernstein say on the matter? First, I asked him about the fight that never got made. What would a Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Superfight have looked like back in 2009?
“That would’ve been fun,” Bernstein said. “I always thought that version of Manny Pacquiao had a chance to do rather well against Mayweather. I mean, I may have been wrong based on what has transpired since, but I always thought that the fight would have been really interesting during that time period because of the speed and activity of Pacquiao. That was an A level fighter in Manny Pacquiao who had confidence that was skyrocketing and all the rest of it.”
So Pacquiao is on the same level as Mayweather at welterweight? Among the greatest of the greats?
“Now at those weight divisions, [Pacquiao] is not a Ray Leonard or a Tommy Hearns or a Roberto Duran. Down at featherweight, around those areas, to me he is one of the biggest superstars of all-time along with Barrera, Marquez and Morales. He’s not [quite at that level] at the higher weights, but still terrific.”
Bernstein doesn’t consider Pacquiao an all-time great welterweight, but gives high praise to the Pacquiao of lower divisions.
“Pacquiao had two different careers. The first one was with all those great fighters when they created what I consider to be a mini-version of the 1980s thing of the Four Kings [Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Leonard]. He ended up having the best record of that whole crew, so you have to give him his props. At the end of the day, he was the best of that group probably by a narrow margin.”
Still, Bernstein doesn’t seem quite ready to jump on the Pacquiao train, so I push the issue. Don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s career a bit differently? I mean, head-to-head is one thing, but don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s legacy at the lighter weights and Mayweather’s at the heavier? And doesn’t what Pacquiao accomplished later in his career bolster his case of being best of the era?
“When he moved up in weight, he had some amazing performances. But with Mayweather, because he’s still winning and winning convincingly…you have to take the whole body of work. Mayweather’s had these long layoffs and all the rest, so he’s managed his body better in a lot of ways…but at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Mayweather’s beaten everybody. Now, were there times when you’d have liked to see him fight Fighter A instead of Fighter B? Definitely. And were there a couple of people that he used what I like to call the Angelo Dundee theory of management of trying to get everyone at exactly the right time? Yes. He did all that. But at the end of the day, he’s going to have glittery names on his resume. Isn’t he?”
It’s true. Mayweather does have a bevy of big names on his unblemished record. De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, and Cotto are nothing to scoff at. Moreover, he’s just about dominated every single one of them. His wins might not carry watchers to the peak of excitement the way a fighter like Pacquiao does, but Mayweather is the sweetest scientist of his day. In fact, Bernstein argues that Mayweather is so good at what he does, he fools the audience into thinking he’s not standing right in front of his opponents for most of the fight.
“When you dissect a Mayweather fight, when you go back and look at it, he spends a lot of time in the pocket. It’s not as if he’s dancing the whole time. He will move strategically when he wants to, and what he does, if you look at it, his plan is always the same: He might give a round or two early…and then he wins all those rounds in the middle. He does it not by moving, but by landing punches, by slipping, by doing all the things he does and letting the guy know: ‘look, you’re in here, but you’re not going to hit me as much as you want.’ Then, in the later rounds, he’ll employ a little more movement. It’s not running, but employing more movement. Because now…he’s banked a lot of rounds and he now feels like he can peck away and win the rounds he needs to win at the end. So it gives the illusion of how he ran when in reality he didn’t. That’s the part that fascinates me.”
Bernstein said part of the problem is that Mayweather, 36, has never had to face a truly great fighter in his prime. So the entertainment value of a Mayweather fight is reduced to simply witnessing how much better he is than the person standing in front of him. And while Pacquiao had great rivals in the prime of his career, men who tested his limits, fans have missed out on seeing how Mayweather would react facing the same thing.
Bernstein has a point. In 2012, when Miguel Cotto had the audacity to bloody Mayweather’s nose with a steady and stiff jab, for fans it was as if Gatti-Ward was unfolding right in front of their eyes. The excitement was downright palpable, despite the fight being a clear and wide UD win for Mayweather. Why? Because Mayweather so seldom looks as if he’s actually in a fight.
“That’s why, to be honest, sometimes he’s doing great but also it’s the level of opposition. We don’t have a superstar in this era [for him to fight]. We have a lot of terrific fighters, Canelo among them. They’re very good at their craft and fun to watch. We don’t have another A-plus level fighter in those weight divisions. If we had an Andre Ward down there, or someone like that, then it would probably be a great matchup. If we had a Tommy Hearns and a Sugar Ray Leonard or a Roberto Duran or an Aaron Pryor – if we had some of those people, we’d have a better chance of seeing the match we want to have with Mayweather.”
Last month, we were hoping Canelo Alvarez would help give us exactly that. Yet, while the 23-year-old appeared to have all the tools necessary to give Mayweather a stern test, the 12-round bout devolved into that of just about any other Mayweather fight: absolute dominance.
“I thought Canelo squandered his moment in time by fighting the wrong tactical fight,” Bernstein said. “I don’t know if he’d have done any better, but why he did that, I have no idea.”
Still, Bernstein said the stage for the fight, which he called from ringside for Showtime, was up there with any big fight in boxing history.
“That one was right up there with any of them. The level of excitement leading up to it, that weigh-in scene where they open up the entire arena and I couldn’t hear a word Brian Kenny was saying and I had to read his lips because of the noise…it was pretty extraordinary. And because the mainstream sports media covered it, it added another dimension to it, too. The whole event was as exciting as the great fights in the 80s I worked on featuring Hearns, Hagler, Leonard and Duran. Now, that was a different time. There was no social media and the immediacy of coverage, but still those were huge events and spectacular…this one was right at the top of the list.”
It seems Bernstein can’t say enough good things about Mayweather.
“He’s remarkable. He’s 36 years old, pushing 37, and you could never imagine somebody fighting this precisely, this well and this athletically at that age.”
Still, though, all this talk about the Four Kings…these guys were all great, and they all fought each other to prove both to themselves and to the world, which man was the greatest of the era. Isn’t this whole issue, the legacies of Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, something that could’ve and should’ve been settled in the ring back when it might have been the biggest fight in boxing history? Didn’t Pacquiao, the version that butchered Ricky Hatton and tossed Miguel Cotto around the ring like a ragdoll…didn’t he stand the best chance of knocking Mayweather off his throne?
“We would have liked to find out,” said Bernstein, and in the end, it appears we at least agree on that.
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Avila Perspective, Chap. 304: Mike Tyson Returns; Latino Night in Riyadh
Iron Mike Tyson is back.
“I’m just ready to fight,” Tyson said.
Tyson (50-6, 44 KOs) faces social media star-turned-fighter Jake Paul (10-1, 7 KOs) on Friday, Nov. 15, at AT&T Stadium in Arlington, Texas. Netflix will stream the Most Valuable Promotions card that includes female super stars Katie Taylor versus Amanda Serrano.
It’s a solid fight card.
The last time Tyson stepped in the prize ring was 19 years ago. Though he’s now 58 years old there’s a boxing adage that fits perfectly for this match: “it only takes one punch.”
Few heavyweights mastered the one-punch knockout like Tyson did during his reign of terror. If you look on social media you can find highlights of Tyson’s greatest knockouts. It’s the primary reason many people in the world today think he still fights regularly.
Real boxing pundits know otherwise.
But Tyson is not Evander Holyfield or Lennox Lewis, he’s facing 20-something-year-old Paul who has been boxing professionally for only five years.
“I’m not going to lose,” said Tyson.
Paul, 27, began performing in the prize ring as a lark. He demolished former basketball player Nate Robinson and gained traction by defeating MMA stars in boxing matches. His victories began to gain attention especially when he beat UFC stars Anderson Silva and Nate Diaz.
He’s become a phenom.
Every time Paul fights, he seems to improve. But can he beat Tyson?
“He says he’s going to kill me. I’m ready. I want that killer. I want the hardest match possible Friday night, and I want there to be no excuses from everyone at home when I knock him out,” said Paul who lured Tyson from retirement.
Was it a mistake?
The Tyson versus Paul match is part of a co-main event pitting the two best known female fighters Katie Taylor (23-1) and Amanda Serrano (47-2-1) back in the ring again. Their first encounter two years ago was Fight of the Year. Can they match or surpass that incredible fight?
“I’m going to do what I do best and come to fight,” said Serrano.
Taylor expects total war.
“I think what me and Amanda have done over these last few years, inspiring that generation of young fighters, is the best thing we could leave behind in this sport,” said Taylor.
Also, WBC welterweight titlist Mario Barrios (29-2, 18 KOs) defends against Arizona’s Abel Ramos (28-6-2, 22 KOs) and featherweight hotshot Bruce “Shu Shu” Carrington (13-0, 8 KOs) meets Dana Coolwell (13-2, 8 KOs). Several other bouts are planned.
Riyadh Season
WBA cruiserweight titlist Gilberto “Zurdo” Ramirez headlines a Golden Boy Promotions card called Riyadh Season’s Latino Night. It’s the first time the Los Angeles-based company has ventured to Saudi Arabia for a boxing card.
“Passion. That’s what this fight card is all about,” said Oscar De La Hoya, CEO of Golden Boy.
Mexico’s Ramirez (46-1, 30 KOs) meets England’s Chris Billam-Smith (20-1, 13 KOs) who holds the WBO title on Saturday Nov. 16, at The Venue in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. DAZN will stream the Golden Boy card.
Ramirez surprised many when he defeated Arsen Goulamirian for the WBA title this past March in Inglewood, California. The tall southpaw from Mazatlan had also held the WBO super middleweight title for years and grew out of the division.
“I’m very excited for this Saturday. I’m ready for whatever he brings to the table,” said Ramirez. “I need to throw a lot of punches and win every round.”
Billam-Smith is slightly taller than Ramirez and has been fighting in the cruiserweight division his entire pro career. He’s not a world champion through luck and could provide a very spectacular show. The two titlists seem perfect for each other.
“It’s amazing to be headlining this night,” said Billam-Smith. “He will be eating humble pie on Saturday night.”
Other Interesting Bouts
A unification match between minimumweight champions WBO Oscar Collazo (10-0) and WBA titlist Thammanoon Niyomtrong could be a show stealer. Both are eager to prove that their 105-pound weight class should not be ignored.
“I wanted big fights and huge fights, what’s better than a unification match,” said Collazo at the press conference.
Niyomtrong, the WBA titlist from Thailand, has held the title since June 2016 and feels confident he will conquer.
“I want to prove who’s the best world champion at 105. Collazo is the WBO champion but we are more experienced,” said Niyomtrong.
A lightweight bout between a top contender from Mexico and former world champion from the USA is also earmarked for many boxing fans
Undefeated William “El Camaron” Zepeda meets Tevin Farmer whose style can provide problems for any fighter.
“There is so much talent on this card. It’s a complicated fight for me against an experienced foe,” said Zepeda.
Tevin Farmer, who formerly held the IBF super featherweight title now performs as a lightweight. He feels confident in his abilities.
“You can’t be a top dog unless you beat a top dog. Once I beat Zepeda what are they going to do?” said Farmer about Golden Boy.
In a non-world title fight, former world champion Jose Ramirez accepted the challenge from Arnold Barboza who had been chasing him for years.
“I’m ready for Saturday to prove I’m the best at this weight,” said Ramirez.
Arnold Barboza is rubbing his hands in anticipation.
“This fight has been important to me for a long time. Shout out to Jose Ramirez for taking this fight,” said Barboza.
Special note
The fight card begins at 8:57 a.m. Saturday on DAZN which can be seen for free by non-subscribers.
Fights to Watch (all times Pacific Time)
Fri. Netflix 5 p.m. Mike Tyson (50-6) vs Jake Paul (10-1); Katie Taylor (23-1) vs Amanda Serrano (47-2-1); Mario Barrios (29-2) vs Abel Ramos (28-6-2).
Sat. DAZN, 8:57 a.m. Gilberto Ramirez (46-1) vs Chris Billiam-Smith (20-1); Oscar Collazo (10-0) vs Thammanoon Niyomtrong (25-0); William Zepeda (31-0) vs Tevin Farmer (33-6-1); Jose Ramirez (29-1) vs Arnold Barboza (30-0).
Mike Tyson photo credit: Esther Lin
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Say It Ain’t So: Oliver McCall Returns to the Ring Next Week
Mike Tyson isn’t the only geezer in action this month. As if one grotesquerie wasn’t enough, Oliver McCall is slated to return to the ring on Tuesday, Nov. 19. McCall is matched against Stacy “Bigfoot” Frazier in a 4-rounder. The venue is a dance hall in Nashville where the usual bill of fare is an Elvis impersonator. The fight, airing on TrillerTVplus, will be historic, says a promotional blurb, as McCall will break Mike Tyson’s record as the oldest former heavyweight champion to compete in a licensed professional fight.
McCall was one of Tyson’s most frequent sparring partners during Iron Mike’s days with Don King. Nicknamed “Atomic Bull,” McCall is 59 years old, sports a 59-14 record, and as a pro has answered the bell for 436 rounds. By comparison, Tyson, 58, has 215 rounds under his belt heading in to his date with Jake Paul.
Stacy Frazier, according to some reports, is 54 years old. Per boxrec, he has a 16-22 record and has been stopped 17 times. In common with McCall, this is his first ring exposure in five-and-a-half years.
The Nov. 19 fight card is being promoted by Jimmy Adams, a former Don King surrogate who has had a long relationship with Oliver McCall. Adams promoted five fights for McCall in Nashville in a four-month span in 1997/98. These were comeback fights for the troubled McCall, coming on the heels of his famous meltdown in his rematch with Lennox Lewis.
Back then, Adams promoted most of his Nashville shows at a bar called the Mix Factory. The promoter and the venue factored large in a New York Times story that began on page 1 of the June 1, 1998 issue and spilled over into the sports section. It bore the title “Boxing in the Shadows.”
The gist of the story was that boxing commissions in different regions of the country “had different levels of tolerance for risk” and that Nashville, which had suddenly become a very busy locale for low-budget fights, was an accident waiting to happen. The Tennessee boxing commission, a division of the Tennessee Department of Commerce and Insurance, was a one-man operation with a budget that penciled out to less than $1,000 per show.
In an article that appeared in the (Nashville) Tennessean shortly after the New York Times expose, promoter Adams scoffed at the insinuation that many of the fighters he used were not true professionals – “I’ve worked to make Nashville the boxing capital of the world,” he said – but Tommy Patrick, the head of the Tennessee Boxing Board, allowed that there was a chance that Adams may have recruited some of his fighters from a homeless shelter.
McCall won the WBC version of the world heavyweight title on Sept. 24, 1994, at Wembley Stadium in London. In one of the biggest upsets of the decade, he knocked out previously undefeated Lennox Lewis in the second round. He made one successful defense, out-pointing long-in-the-tooth Larry Holmes, before returning to Wembley and losing the title to Frank Bruno.
The rematch with Lennox Lewis, on Feb. 7, 1997 in Las Vegas, was one of the most bizarre fights in boxing history. McCall was acting odd before the fifth round when he started sobbing and simply quit trying. Referee Mills Lane disqualified him, but it went into the books as a win by TKO for Lewis. That remains the only time that Oliver McCall, renowned for his granite chin, failed to make it to the final bell.
In the months leading up to that fight, McCall had drug, alcohol, and legal problems.
In some of his most recent outings, McCall shared the bill with his son Elijah McCall. They last appeared together in May of 2013 when they appeared on a card in Legionowo, Poland. A heavyweight, now 36 years old, Elijah McCall returned to the ring in June of this year after a 10-year absence and was stopped in the second round by Brandon Moore in Orlando.
Jimmy Adams, the promoter, was also involved in the careers of heavyweight title-holders Tony Tucker and Greg Page. Both fought at the Mix Factory as their careers were winding down. But he wasn’t able to lock in dates for Riddick Bowe.
In 2005, in a rare burst of rectitude, the Tennessee authorities refused to license Bowe who had returned to the ring the previous year after an 8-year absence at an Indian reservation in Oklahoma.
They based their denial on the transcript of a 2000 court hearing related to a 1998 incident where Bowe kidnapped his wife and five children and forced them to go with him as he drove from Virginia to North Carolina. Riddick’s legal team, led by Johnnie Cochran, argued that Riddick’s erratic behavior was the result of brain damage suffered over the course of his 43-fight professional boxing career.
The “brain damage defense” was just a ploy to keep Bowe out of prison, argued Jimmy Adams, who had arranged two fights for Bowe in Memphis, but the authorities were unyielding and Bowe never fought in Tennessee.
Adams has also been involved in the career of Christy Martin who is listed as the matchmaker for the Nov. 19 show. But the cynics would tell you that Ms. Martin is the matchmaker in name only in the same fashion that Jimmy Adams was a strawman for Don King.
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Boxing was a Fertile Arena for Award-Winning Sportswriter Gary Smith
Gary Smith is this generation’s most decorated and distinctive magazine writer after winning an unprecedented four National Magazine Awards for non-fiction and being a finalist for the award a record ten times during his more than three decades at Sports Illustrated.
A longtime resident of Charleston, South Carolina, Smith began his career at the Wilmington [Delaware] News Journal followed by stops at the Philadelphia Daily News, the New York Daily News and the stylish monthly Inside Sports before landing at Sports Illustrated in 1982. His job at “S.I.” was to write four longform features a year. Mike Tyson and James “Buster” Douglas were among the athletes that he profiled and he also penned features on Muhammad Ali and George Foreman.
Smith said it’s one thing to see an athlete perform but it’s another to know what’s inside.
“I just felt like to really render the human soul in its most honest way, that getting to understand what human beings had been through and what had landed them with whatever coping mechanism they used would be vital so people could understand a person,” said the La Salle University graduate who stepped away from the magazine in 2014. “Some of these people were doing some extreme things and if you didn’t really lay out the soil they sprung from and what brought them to that place, they would seem like aliens or freaks, but you could very much humanize them which was the only fair thing to do. We all want someone to understand why we are who we are, rather than leaving us dangling on the vine.”
Smith’s wife, Sally, is a psychiatrist, and summed up what her husband tried to lay bare in his features.
“He is not satisfied with putting facts together. He wants to understand what is the core conflict that has driven that person,” she offered many years ago. “He hopes to tell a secret that a person might not be aware of.”
It was rumored Smith would interview no less than fifty people for one feature. Smith said that wasn’t always the case, but he wanted to be thorough, which was merely one key in trying to know and understand his subject.
“You needed patience, asking and re-asking questions because you often wouldn’t get the truest or deepest answer the first go-around. Hopefully being comfortable enough in your own skin would engender trust over time,” he explained. “There would be a lot of follow-up questions, even if I had spent a week with somebody poring over the notes and going back and calling them again and again and really taking it further and further, what their interior monologue with themselves or dialogues in some cases. What was going on and felt in each of these pivotal moments in their lives, so you’d really get a feel of what was going on in the interior.”
“That’s why I did a lot of boxing stories,” said Smith. “There was so much kindling, so much psychological tension which makes for great storytelling. No one carried around tension and opposites like boxers did. It’s fertile terrain for any writer.”
A boxer, said Smith, was figuratively naked in the ring. “These are human beings who are participating in one of the most extreme things that any human being can do,” he acknowledged of the manly sport. “There’s a reason why you end up in such an extreme circumstance. You’re involved in a public mauling. You’re risking being killed or killing. To land there is virtually always a real story. You don’t land there by accident.”
Rick Telander, who worked at Sports Illustrated for 23 years, explained what made Smith’s work stand out. “Gary Smith was a unique writer,” he said. “He immersed himself in his topic, in his subject, like no one else I’ve ever read. He used his words to paint a picture that was one thousand times better than an actual photograph. You could feel the mind and the pain and the joy and the resolve and the defeat and the victory of the person he was writing about.”
Telander, who is the lead sports columnist at the Chicago Sun-Times, said Smith was a one-of-a-kind talent.
“He used his skill with words to make you feel exactly what he felt, what you should feel, to understand the story of some other person on a journey to some place we all would recognize, foreign though it may be,” he stated. “No matter how long a Gary Smith magazine piece was, you had to finish it. You had to know. You had to read and feel the resolution. It was a kind of magic. And Gary was the magician. He was the best there was.”
Alexander Wolff, who spent 36 years at Sports Illustrated, shared a similar sentiment. “Gary had the ability to inhabit the head of his subject,” he noted. “He did that by relentlessly asking questions, often leading subjects to address matters and themes they’d never before thought about.”
Smith visited Tyson early in his career and said the one-time heavyweight king had multiple personalities.
“He was a bundle of opposites. At one moment, he’s kind of seething about the world and people and the next moment he’s just a puppy dog with his arm around your neck,” he said. “One moment walking away from my introductory handshake and leaving it hanging in the air when we first met and by the end of it, arm literally around my neck….The friction of opposites was always at play.”
Smith wrote his feature on James “Buster” Douglas after Douglas claimed the heavyweight crown from Tyson in February 1990.
“He was a gentle soul for the most part. Less extreme actually than most boxers. Therefore, it took a more extreme situation being in a ring with Mike Tyson to bring out the natural talents. He was God-gifted and a father-gifted fighter,” he remembered. “He wasn’t the kind who had easy access to all that desperation that’s needed to excel in boxing but after his mother’s death and the proximity to Tyson’s right hand, they brought out that desperation to use these natural gifts as a fighter.”
Like so many who were around Muhammad Ali, Smith was often amused by the three-time heavyweight champ.
“Ali was always a lot of fun to be with. He was mischievous and said things that could be striking,” he said. “Most of them were very interesting in a variety of ways. Ali was the prankster, and you might be the butt of his pranks.”
Among the many honors accorded Smith was the Dan Jenkins Medal For Lifetime Achievement in Sportswriting, awarded in 2019. Some of his finest work can be found in his two anthologies: “Beyond The Game: The Collected Sportswriting Of Gary Smith’’ (Atlantic Monthly Press, 2000) and “Going Deep: 20 Classic Sports Stories by Gary Smith” (Sports Illustrated Books, 2008).
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