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Pacquiao vs. Mayweather: Who’s the Best of the Era?

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Al Bernstein knows more about boxing than me. To be totally fair to him, it’s probably safe to say the recently inducted Hall of Famer has actually forgotten more about boxing at this point in his storied career than I know in total.

Bernstein has done it all as a boxing media member, and he’s done it well. He started as a newspaperman in the 1970s. Soon, he was contributing to Boxing Illustrated and RING Magazine. From 1980 to 1998, he was analyst and host of ESPN’s Top Rank Boxing show. In fact, from 1980 to 2003, Bernstein was the primary voice of boxing for ESPN. And, as you well know, since 2003 Bernstein has been lead boxing analyst for Showtime. He’s also the primary face and leader of our sister site, Boxing Channel.

Like I said, he’s done it all.

One of his signature shows over at ESPN was the Big Fights Boxing Hour. He wrote and hosted 26 episodes of the program, which chronicled some of the biggest fights in boxing history. Honestly, my first encounter with many of the finer points of boxing history came through watching these shows, where old-time masters like Sugar Ray Robinson and Jack Dempsey came to life again through the magic of film.

So when I chatted with Bernstein recently, I couldn’t help but ask him to compare legacies between the two preeminent fighters of this era, Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao. Who is the greatest of this era, as of today? If I’m honest with myself, I was probably hoping Bernstein would validate my opinion on the matter: Mayweather is an all-time great, but Pacquiao is an all-time greater.

Look, I’m not saying Pacquiao (seen running stairs in Beijing with Brandon Rios, in Chris Farina-Top Rank snap) would’ve beaten Mayweather at welterweight back when the fight should’ve happened around 2009-10. (I’m not not saying it either). But I submit to you, dear reader, that Pacquiao’s wins, both the men he fought and when he fought them, measure slightly better than Mayweather’s grand accomplishment of staying undefeated.

Sure, it’s close. But Pacquiao’s three best wins before he moved up to welterweight (Barrera, Morales and Marquez) are better than any one win Mayweather has enjoyed over his entire career. Right?

And his losses? Give me the fighter who tests himself over the one that doesn’t. I want to see a fighter go beyond his limits, and when he reaches them and gets knocked to the ground, I want to see if he can get back up again.

But what does Bernstein say on the matter? First, I asked him about the fight that never got made. What would a Manny Pacquiao vs. Floyd Mayweather Superfight have looked like back in 2009?

That would’ve been fun,” Bernstein said. “I always thought that version of Manny Pacquiao had a chance to do rather well against Mayweather. I mean, I may have been wrong based on what has transpired since, but I always thought that the fight would have been really interesting during that time period because of the speed and activity of Pacquiao. That was an A level fighter in Manny Pacquiao who had confidence that was skyrocketing and all the rest of it.”

So Pacquiao is on the same level as Mayweather at welterweight? Among the greatest of the greats?

“Now at those weight divisions, [Pacquiao] is not a Ray Leonard or a Tommy Hearns or a Roberto Duran. Down at featherweight, around those areas, to me he is one of the biggest superstars of all-time along with Barrera, Marquez and Morales. He’s not [quite at that level] at the higher weights, but still terrific.”

Bernstein doesn’t consider Pacquiao an all-time great welterweight, but gives high praise to the Pacquiao of lower divisions.

“Pacquiao had two different careers. The first one was with all those great fighters when they created what I consider to be a mini-version of the 1980s thing of the Four Kings [Hearns, Hagler, Duran and Leonard]. He ended up having the best record of that whole crew, so you have to give him his props. At the end of the day, he was the best of that group probably by a narrow margin.”

Still, Bernstein doesn’t seem quite ready to jump on the Pacquiao train, so I push the issue. Don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s career a bit differently? I mean, head-to-head is one thing, but don’t you have to judge Pacquiao’s legacy at the lighter weights and Mayweather’s at the heavier? And doesn’t what Pacquiao accomplished later in his career bolster his case of being best of the era?

“When he moved up in weight, he had some amazing performances. But with Mayweather, because he’s still winning and winning convincingly…you have to take the whole body of work. Mayweather’s had these long layoffs and all the rest, so he’s managed his body better in a lot of ways…but at the end of the day, it doesn’t matter. Mayweather’s beaten everybody. Now, were there times when you’d have liked to see him fight Fighter A instead of Fighter B? Definitely. And were there a couple of people that he used what I like to call the Angelo Dundee theory of management of trying to get everyone at exactly the right time? Yes. He did all that. But at the end of the day, he’s going to have glittery names on his resume. Isn’t he?”

It’s true. Mayweather does have a bevy of big names on his unblemished record. De La Hoya, Hatton, Marquez, Mosley, and Cotto are nothing to scoff at. Moreover, he’s just about dominated every single one of them. His wins might not carry watchers to the peak of excitement the way a fighter like Pacquiao does, but Mayweather is the sweetest scientist of his day. In fact, Bernstein argues that Mayweather is so good at what he does, he fools the audience into thinking he’s not standing right in front of his opponents for most of the fight.

“When you dissect a Mayweather fight, when you go back and look at it, he spends a lot of time in the pocket. It’s not as if he’s dancing the whole time. He will move strategically when he wants to, and what he does, if you look at it, his plan is always the same: He might give a round or two early…and then he wins all those rounds in the middle. He does it not by moving, but by landing punches, by slipping, by doing all the things he does and letting the guy know: ‘look, you’re in here, but you’re not going to hit me as much as you want.’ Then, in the later rounds, he’ll employ a little more movement. It’s not running, but employing more movement. Because now…he’s banked a lot of rounds and he now feels like he can peck away and win the rounds he needs to win at the end. So it gives the illusion of how he ran when in reality he didn’t. That’s the part that fascinates me.”

Bernstein said part of the problem is that Mayweather, 36, has never had to face a truly great fighter in his prime. So the entertainment value of a Mayweather fight is reduced to simply witnessing how much better he is than the person standing in front of him. And while Pacquiao had great rivals in the prime of his career, men who tested his limits, fans have missed out on seeing how Mayweather would react facing the same thing.

Bernstein has a point. In 2012, when Miguel Cotto had the audacity to bloody Mayweather’s nose with a steady and stiff jab, for fans it was as if Gatti-Ward was unfolding right in front of their eyes. The excitement was downright palpable, despite the fight being a clear and wide UD win for Mayweather. Why? Because Mayweather so seldom looks as if he’s actually in a fight.

“That’s why, to be honest, sometimes he’s doing great but also it’s the level of opposition. We don’t have a superstar in this era [for him to fight]. We have a lot of terrific fighters, Canelo among them. They’re very good at their craft and fun to watch. We don’t have another A-plus level fighter in those weight divisions. If we had an Andre Ward down there, or someone like that, then it would probably be a great matchup. If we had a Tommy Hearns and a Sugar Ray Leonard or a Roberto Duran or an Aaron Pryor – if we had some of those people, we’d have a better chance of seeing the match we want to have with Mayweather.”

Last month, we were hoping Canelo Alvarez would help give us exactly that. Yet, while the 23-year-old appeared to have all the tools necessary to give Mayweather a stern test, the 12-round bout devolved into that of just about any other Mayweather fight: absolute dominance.

“I thought Canelo squandered his moment in time by fighting the wrong tactical fight,” Bernstein said. “I don’t know if he’d have done any better, but why he did that, I have no idea.”

Still, Bernstein said the stage for the fight, which he called from ringside for Showtime, was up there with any big fight in boxing history.

“That one was right up there with any of them. The level of excitement leading up to it, that weigh-in scene where they open up the entire arena and I couldn’t hear a word Brian Kenny was saying and I had to read his lips because of the noise…it was pretty extraordinary. And because the mainstream sports media covered it, it added another dimension to it, too. The whole event was as exciting as the great fights in the 80s I worked on featuring Hearns, Hagler, Leonard and Duran. Now, that was a different time. There was no social media and the immediacy of coverage, but still those were huge events and spectacular…this one was right at the top of the list.”

It seems Bernstein can’t say enough good things about Mayweather.

“He’s remarkable. He’s 36 years old, pushing 37, and you could never imagine somebody fighting this precisely, this well and this athletically at that age.”

Still, though, all this talk about the Four Kings…these guys were all great, and they all fought each other to prove both to themselves and to the world, which man was the greatest of the era. Isn’t this whole issue, the legacies of Floyd Mayweather and Manny Pacquiao, something that could’ve and should’ve been settled in the ring back when it might have been the biggest fight in boxing history? Didn’t Pacquiao, the version that butchered Ricky Hatton and tossed Miguel Cotto around the ring like a ragdoll…didn’t he stand the best chance of knocking Mayweather off his throne?

“We would have liked to find out,” said Bernstein, and in the end, it appears we at least agree on that.

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Avila Perspective, Chap. 278: Clashes of Spring in Phoenix, Las Vegas, and LA

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PHOENIX-It happens every Spring.

Promoters worldwide gather their forces and produce their best fight cards from Europe to the Americas and in Asia.

Beginning Friday, it starts with Top Rank staging a heavy-duty fight card featuring Arizona’s Oscar Valdez and Australia’s Liam Wilson along with a female battle for the undisputed minimumweight championship. ESPN+ will stream the card.

Valdez (31-2, 23 KOs) meets Wilson (13-2, 7 KOs) at the Desert Diamond Arena in Glendale, Arizona on Friday, March 29. Both have a common foe and lost to champion Emanuel Navarrete. Both want a rematch or world title fight.

“I know Liam Wilson. He’s a tough fighter,” said Valdez. I was there when he fought Emanuel Navarrete and he sent him to the canvas.”

Wilson almost defeated the champion and now must face two-division world titlist Valdez in his Arizona backyard.

“The whole world saw what happened. I should have already become world champion,” said Wilson of his fight with Navarrete. “I won the belt that night.”

It’s not to be missed.

In the co-main WBA and WBC titlist Seniesa Estrada (25-0, 9 KOs) and WBO and IBF titlist Yokasta Valle (30-2, 9 KOs) battle for the undisputed minimumweight world championship.

Costa Rica’s Valle has super speed and the ability to change tactics if things don’t go her way as she showed against Argentina’s Evelin Bermudez. She is also one of the most athletically gifted fighters in female boxing with incredible stamina.

“This isn’t personal. I respect her as the champion that she is,” Valle said. “And in the ring, we will see who is the real champion.”

East L.A’s Estrada is perhaps one of the most skilled fighters in the world. She also packs power in her small frame. So far, no one has been able to figure out her fighting style or overcome her quickness. The left hook is her best weapon but she has floored opponents with her right cross as well.

“The talk is over. Its time for us to get in there,” said Estrada. “It’s about showing the world that women’s boxing is here, it’s on the rise, and we are great.”

Las Vegas

Aussie slugger Tim Tszyu (24-0, 17 KOs) can add the WBC to his WBO super welterweight title but must pass through giant Sebastian Fundora (20-1-1, 13 KOs) to accomplish unification. Tszyu was supposed to fight Keith Thurman but injury forced him out of Saturday’s TGB Promotions fight card at T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas.

Last-minute replacements can be a problem.

Fundora is already a problem with his six-inch height advantage. Plus, he’s a southpaw with pop. It’s like pouring sugar into a gas tank for Tszyu.

But he’s a very confident fellow.

“He’s got height but we all bleed the same blood,” Tszyu said at the press conference.

Another world title fight pits WBA super lightweight titlist Rolly Romero (15-1) versus Isaac Cruz (25-2-1) in the semi-main event.

A third world title matches WBA middleweight titlist Erislandy Lara (29-3-3) against Michael Zerafa (31-4).

A fourth world title fight consists of WBC flyweight titlist Julio Cesar Martinez (20-3) fighting Angelino Cordova (18-0-1).

In an eliminator for the WBC super welterweight belt, Serhii Bohachuk (23-1) is now matched against Brian Mendoza (22-3) who replaces Fundora.

It’s a solid fight card that will be shown on PPV.COM with Jim Lampley broadcasting and assisted by Lance Pugmire. They will also be texting the results and interacting with fans. It’s their third boxing show.

Inglewood

Former super middleweight world titlist Gilberto “Zurdo” Ramirez (45-1) is moving up two weight divisions to challenge WBA cruiserweight champion Arsen Goulamirian (27-0, 19 Kos) on Saturday March 30, at the YouTube Theater in Inglewood, Calif. DAZN will stream the Golden Boy Promotions card.

Goulamirian will be making the fifth defense of his title and recently added famed trainer Abel Sanchez to his corner. The former trainer of Gennady Golovkin and Serhii Bohachuk had retired for a few years but returned for the champ.

It’s an interesting match.

Even more interesting was the announcement that Hollywood Park and Golden Boy Promotions signed an agreement beginning this Saturday to work together in bringing boxing events.

“We were the first to host an inaugural combat sports event at YouTube Theater in January 2023, and we couldn’t be more pleased to make history again by being the first to solidify a partnership deal of this magnitude with Hollywood Park,” said Oscar De La Hoya the CEO for Golden Boy Promotions.

It’s an interesting partnership.

One thing the promotion company needs is to add more female fighters to their company to break up the monotony of slow fight cards. It makes sense to add women to the boxing cards. They fight harder and I’ve never seen women fights fail to excite the crowd, whereas I’ve seen plenty of boring men fights on many a promotion.

Bring in female fighters.

When Zurdo fought at the Banc of California two years he brought very few fans compared to the two female fights that same night. The women draw a different crowd and surprise most fans with their energy.

Fights to Watch (all times Pacific Time)

Fri. ESPN+ 3:10 p.m. Oscar Valdez (31-2) vs Liam Wilson (13-2); Seniesa Estrada (25-0) vs Yokasta Valle (30-2).

Sat. DAZN 5 p.m. Gilberto Ramirez (45-1) vs Arsen Goulamirian (27-0).

Sat. PPV.COM 5 p.m. Tim Tszyu (24-0) vs Sebastian Fundora (20-1-1); Rolly Romero (15-1) vs Isaac Cruz (25-2-1); Erislandy Lara (29-3-3) vs Michael Zerafa (31-4); Serhii Bohachuk (23-1) vs Brian Mendoza (22-3).

Photo credit: Mikey Williams / Top Rank via Getty Images

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Results from Detroit where Carrillo, Ergashev and Shishkin Scored KOs

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Results from Detroit where Carrillo, Ergashev and Shishkin Scored KOs

Dmitriy Salita, who began promoting small club fights In Brooklyn at the former U.S. Navy airfield where he had his final pro fight, has found a welcome home in Detroit where he is working hard to resurrect the Motor City as an important fight destination. Although his shows are still low-budget (save for the money he spends on marketing; he uses heavyweight PR firm Swanson Communications), his new arrangement with DAZN can only move him another step up the pecking order.

Tonight, two of the most valuable pieces in his stable – junior lightweight Shohjahon Ergashev and super middleweight Vladimir Shishkin — were in action on Salita’s second show at Detroit’s Watne State University Fieldhouse. However, Salita reserved the main event for one of his newest signees, Juan Carrillo, a light heavyweight who represented Colombia in the 2016 Rio Olympics.

In a battle of southpaws, Carrillo (12-0, 9 KOs) had no difficulty putting away Quinton Randall (21-9-2), a 37-year-old North Carolinian who had scored only five of his 21 wins against opponents with winning records. In the third frame, a big left uppercut put Randall on the canvas. He managed to get to his feet at the count of nine, but was on queer street and the fight was waived off. The official time was 0.27 of round three.

Ergashev

Shohjahon Ergashev, a southpaw from Uzbekistan who purportedly has 2.7 million Instagram followers in his home country, was making his first start since a failed bid to win the IBF 140-pound world title. Ergashev was stopped in the fifth round by Subriel Matias, his first defeat as a pro after opening his career 23-0 with 20 KOs.

Tonight, he got back on the winning track without breaking a sweat. A left hook to the body ended the fight in the opening round. His victim, Juan Antonio Huertas, a 31-year-old Panamanian, entered the fight with a 17-4 record, but was 0-2 on American soil and had been stopped both times.

Shishkin

A 32-year-old Russian who trains at the new Kronk Gym where SugarHill Steward holds forth when he is in town, Vladimir Shishkin entered the contest undefeated (15-0, 9 KOs) and ranked #2 by the IBF. How odd that his fight opened the telecast. Perhaps promoter Salita thought that the fight would be too one-sided and wanted to get it out of the way in a hurry. His opponent Mike Guy, 12-7-1 (5) heading in, had been in with some rough customers but was 43 years old, was inactive in all of 2022 and 2023, and had fought most of his career as a super middleweight.

The fight was one-sided in favor of Shishkin and rather dull until the Russian cracked up the juice in round seven and forced the stoppage.

In the future, we would encourage Dmitriy Salita to take some of that money he has been spending on marketing to find a higher caliber of “B-Side” opponents. The best thing about this show was that it was over in a hurry.

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R.I.P. IBF founder Bob Lee who was Banished from Boxing by the FBI

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“The image some people have of me is disappointing,” said Bob Lee in a 2006 interview, “but I also feel I had a positive impact on the sport…”

Lee, the founder of the International Boxing Federation who died yesterday (Sunday, March 24) at age 91, spoke those words to Philadelphia Daily News boxing writer Bernard Fernandez who was the first person to interview him when he emerged from a federal prison in 2006. Lee served 22 months on charges that included racketeering, money laundering, and tax evasion.

Born and raised in northern New Jersey and a lifelong resident of the Garden State, Lee, a former police detective, founded the International Boxing Federation (henceforth IBF) in 1983 after a failed bid to win the presidency of the World Boxing Association. At the time, there were only two relevant sanctioning bodies, the WBA, then headquartered in Venezuela, and the WBC, headquartered in Mexico. Both organizations were charged with favoring boxers from Spanish-speaking countries in their ratings at the expense of boxers from the United States.

Bob Lee’s brainchild, whose stated mission was to rectify that injustice, achieved instant credibility when Marvin Hagler and Larry Holmes turned their back on the established organizations. Hagler’s 1983 bout with Wilford Scypion and Holmes’ 1984 match with Bonecrusher Smith were world title fights sanctioned exclusively by the IBF, the last of the three extant organizations to do away with 15-round title fights.

Lee’s world was rocked in November of 1999 when a federal grand jury handed down an indictment that accused him and three IBF officials, including his son Robert W. “Robby” Lee Jr., of taking bribes from promoters and managers in return for higher rankings. The FBI, after a two-year investigation, concluded that $338,000 was paid over a 13-year period by individuals representing 23 boxers.

The government’s key witness was C. Douglas Beavers, the longtime chairman of the IBF ratings committee who wore a wire as a government informant in return for immunity and provided video-tape evidence of a $5000 payout in a seedy Virginia motel room. Promoters Bob Arum and Cedric Kushner both testified that they gave the IBF $100,000 to get the organization’s seal of approval for a match between heavyweight champion George Foreman and Axel Schulz (Arum asserted that he paid the money through a middleman, Stan Hoffman). In return, the IBF gave Schulz a “special exemption” to its rules, allowing the German to bypass Michael Moorer who had a rematch clause that would never be honored. (In a sworn deposition, Big George testified that he had no knowledge of any kickback).

After a long-drawn-out trial that consumed four months including 15 days of jury deliberations, Bob Lee was acquitted on all but six of 32 counts. His son, charged with nine counts, was acquitted on all nine. The jury simply did not trust the veracity of many that testified for the prosecution. (No surprise there; after all, they were boxing people.) But neither did the jury buy into the argument that whatever money Lee received was in the form of gifts and gratuities, a common business practice.

The IBF was run by a court-appointed overseer from January of 2000 until the fall of 2003. Under its current head, Daryl Peoples, who came up from the ranks, assuming the presidency in 2010, the IBF has stayed out of the crosshairs of federal prosecutors.

As part of his sentence, Bob Lee was prohibited from having any further dealings with boxing and that would have included buying a ticket to sit in the cheap seats at a boxing card. This was adding insult to injury as Lee’s passion for boxing ran deep. As a boy working as a caddy at a New Jersey golf course, he had met Joe Louis and Sugar Ray Robinson, two of the proudest moments of his life.

As for his contributions to the sport, Lee had this to say in his post-prison talk with Bernard Fernandez: “We instituted the 168-pound [super middleweight] weight class. We took measures to reduce the incidence of eye injuries in boxing. We changed the weigh-in from the day of the fight to the day before, which prevented fighters from entering the ring so dehydrated that they were putting themselves at risk. All these things, and more, were tremendously beneficial to boxing. I’m very proud of all that we accomplished.”

Bob Lee was a tough old bird. Diagnosed with Type 2 diabetes in 1986, he was insulin-dependent for much of his adult life and yet he lived into his nineties. Although his coloration as a shakedown artist is a stain that will never go away, many people will tell you that, on balance, he was a good man whose lapses ought not define him.

That’s not for us to judge. We send our condolences to his loved ones. May he rest in peace.

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