Hopkins-Mayweather At 160 A Potential Disaster For Both

Published

10 years ago

October 28, 2013

One of them is a certified all-time great and holds the record for middleweight title defenses and at age 48, two months shy of 49, is the oldest fighter in history to hold a legitimate world title. The other is currently the greatest pound-for-pound fighter in boxing and has won a legitimate world title in five different weight divisions who just happens to be undefeated after fighting professionally for 17 years. Together they’ve won a combined 45 world title bouts. Yes, I’m talking about IBF light heavyweight title holder Bernard Hopkins 54-6-2 (32) and pound-for-pound king welterweight Floyd Mayweather 46-0 (26).

Recently, there’s been talk of the two of them meeting in a catch-weight bout and most likely that speculation will soon begin to escalate. Hopkins (pictured above, in Tom Casino-Showtime photo) is without a doubt the shrewdest fighter in boxing history outside of the ring and is self managed. He came from the penitentiary, wasn’t an Olympian, didn’t have any big money or corporate sponsors backing him and even lost his pro debut. Yet he’s been managing himself for a decade and knows where every penny comes from when it comes to making and promoting a fight. You could say unlike Mayweather, Hopkins is more of a small government guy who travels light who doesn’t bring or carry anything that isn’t needed. In addition to that he’s a strategic professor in the ring. He understands exactly what he can and cannot do and changes his style according to who the fighter is in front of him, and he doesn’t need many rounds to size his opponent up and figure out what they can’t do, then he forces them to do it over and over again. There’s never been another boxer/fighter like him in or out of the ring, ever.

Mayweather is also one of the best fighter/managers ever. Where he differs from Hopkins is, Floyd was an Olympian and was brought along and looked after on the way up and even into his tenure as a title-holder and champ. Floyd is like Muhammad Ali in that he’s not hip to where all the money comes from or how it’s divvied up, but understands there’s a lot of it and he’s the draw and must get the lion’s share of it. Mayweather is more of a big government guy who travels with an entourage and is his own entity to a degree. In the ring Mayweather is basically the same fighter stylistically every time out. He more or less forces his opponents to address what he does instead of the opposite. Floyd does what he does and the onus is on his opponent to make him do what he doesn’t want to, something that we’ve seldom seen done by any fighter who he’s fought. Listening to Hopkins and Mayweather negotiate a possible bout between them would be more fascinating to hear then watching them or anyone else actually fight. Unfortunately, Hopkins-Mayweather or Mayweather-Hopkins will probably never become a reality, because it makes no sense and is too risky and a potential disaster for both fighters. The negotiations could very well be the high point of the whole project if by chance it were to be realized.

In Mayweather’s last fight he wasn’t even breathing hard at the end of the bout after dominating Saul Alvarez for 12 rounds, the fighter who was perceived to be the biggest threat to him weighing between 147/154. This past weekend Hopkins dominated the IBF’s number one light heavyweight contender, Karo Murat, and he wasn’t breathing hard either after 12 spirited rounds. Everyone knows that Mayweather is only interested in partaking in big fights and Hopkins reiterated the same sentiment after beating Murat. Hopkins also implied that he thinks his next big fight will be fought at a weight south of the light heavyweight limit of 175. He’s publicly said he’d be willing to go down to 160, a weight he hasn’t fought at in almost nine years, to meet Mayweather in a super-fight. Mayweather has never fought above junior middleweight and has barely weighed over 150 and change for any of his 46 bouts.

Let’s assume Mayweather would agree to meet Hopkins in a 160 pound catch-weight bout, which I doubt, but in boxing you never know. Does anyone believe Hopkins would resemble the same fighter who fought Murat or Tavoris Cloud in his last two bouts? I don’t. I think he’d look more like Sugar Ray Leonard versus Terry Norris, a shell of the fighter he once was. At 160 Bernard would be an empty package. Could he make 168? Absolutely. Then again Hopkins can’t even dent any of his opponents weighing 175 because there’s not much left of his punch. He was taking free shots at Murat all night and I never got the sense that Murat was particularly bothered by anything. He was a little bewildered at times but that was it. At 160 Hopkins would resemble “Cotton Hands” more than “The Alien” and it wouldn’t take Floyd long to realize that. It’s doubtful that Bernard could get down close to 160 and remain a noteworthy fighter against a quick and accurate fighter like Mayweather. And if Hopkins lost to Mayweather he’d never live down that he lost to a fighter who turned pro as a junior lightweight despite his advanced age.

If you’re Mayweather, do you really want to chance that Hopkins might turn back the clock for one night and become the fighter who took apart Felix Trinidad and Oscar De La Hoya at 160? Floyd couldn’t do a thing with that Hopkins. And if there is a boxer alive walking the planet today who could not only solve Mayweather’s style but also get inside his head, it’s Hopkins. Floyd would have no advantage over Hopkins in ring sense and would be facing the one fighter in the sport who posses an even higher boxing IQ than he does. Bernard would also be one of the few fighters Mayweather has ever faced who held a size and strength advantage over him (if there’s anything left of him at 160) who would actually know how to use it. On top of that, Hopkins is the only boxer in the world who keeps himself in shape as good or better than Mayweather does when he’s not fighting.

What if Mayweather did beat 49/50 year old Hopkins at 160? I doubt it would do all that much for his legacy weighed against the risk if he lost. Then again who knows, the public and even gullible boxing people might be taken in by a Mayweather victory. I think there’s a chance that people wouldn’t understand that the 160 pound guy getting into the ring with Floyd that night (a guy who’d be nearly 50 by the time the fight took place) had no resemblance to the real Bernard Hopkins. Hopkins would be so weak at the weight there’s probably four or five other active fighters who’d beat Hopkins at the same weight. He’s even said that he would need months to get that low. How much left as a fighter would he have after draining down so low? And what if Hopkins was able to out-muscle Mayweather and smack him around a little bit, which isn’t a major leap? Does Mayweather want to be remembered for losing to the oldest title holder in history who was fighting 15 pounds below his optimal weight? I think not.

What happens to Floyd if he loses? His reputation could never recover. He couldn’t even argue that he was fighting a guy thirty pounds heavier than he was, since he would have been the one who forced Hopkins down to 160.

Hopkins fighting Mayweather at any catch-weight limit is a joke and makes no sense for either fighter. But I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if boxing fans spent their money to see it. With the right promotion they’d buy Mike Tyson or Lennox Lewis versus either Wladimir or Vitali Klitschko.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

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Frank Lotierzo

Ramon Cardenas Channels Micky Ward and KOs Eduardo Ramirez on ProBox

Published

1 day ago

April 24, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Ramon-Cardenas-Channels-Micky-Ward-and-KOs-Eduardo-Ramirez-on-ProBox

The Wednesday night bi-monthly series of fights on the ProBox TV platform is the best deal in boxing; the livestream is free with no strings attached! Tonight’s episode was headlined by a super bantamweight match between San Antonio’s Ramon Cardenas and Eduardo Ramirez who brought a caravan of rooters from his hometown in Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico.

Cardenas, coached by Joel Diaz, entered the contest ranked #4 by the WBA. He was expected to handle Ramirez with little difficulty, but this was a close, tactical fight through eight frames when lightning struck in the form of a left hook to the liver from Cardenas. Ramirez went down on one knee and wasn’t able to beat the count. It was as if Cardenas summoned the ghost of Micky Ward who had a penchant for terminating fights with the same punch that arrived out of the blue.

The official time was 1:37 of round nine. Cardenas improved to 25-1 with his14th win inside the distance. Ramirez, who was stopped in the opening round by Nick “Wrecking” Ball in London in his lone previous fight outside Mexico, falls to 23-3-3.

Co-Feature

In an upset, Tijuana super welterweight Damian Sosa won a split decision over previously undefeated Marques Valle, a local area fighter who was stepping up in class in his first 10-round go. Sosa was the aggressor, repeatedly backing his taller opponent into the ropes where Valle was unable to get good leverage behind his punches.

The 25-year-old Valle, managed by the influential David McWater, was the house fighter. This was his 10^th appearance in this building. He brought a 10-0 (7) record and was hoping to emulate the success of his younger brother Dominic Valle who scored a second-round stoppage of his opponent in this ring two weeks ago, improving to 9-0. But Sosa, who brought a 24-2 record, proved to be a bridge too high.

The judges had it 97-93 and 96-94 for the Tijuana invader and a disgraceful 98-92 for the house fighter.

Also

In a fight whose abrupt ending would be echoed by the main event, 34-year-old SoCal featherweight Ronny Rios, now training in Las Vegas, returned to the ring after a 22-month hiatus and scored a fifth-round stoppage over Nicolas Polanco of the Dominican Republic.

A three-punch combo climaxed by a left hook to the liver took the breath out of Polanco who slumped to his knees and was counted out. A two-time world title challenger, Rios advanced to 34-4 (17 KOs). Polanco, 34, declined to 21-6-1. The official time was 0:54 of round five.

—

The next ProBox show (Wednesday, May 8) will have an international cast with fighters from Kazakhstan, Japan, Mongolia, and the United Kingdom. In the main event, Liverpool’s Robbie Davies Jr will make his U.S. debut against the California-based Kazakh Sergey Lipinets.

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Haney-Garcia Redux with the Focus on Harvey Dock

Published

3 days ago

April 22, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Haney-Garcia-Redux-with-the-Focus-on-Harvey-Dock

Saturday’s skirmish between Ryan Garcia and WBC super lightweight champion Devin Haney was a messy affair, and yet a hugely entertaining fight fused with great drama. In the aftermath, Garcia and Haney were celebrated – the former for fooling all the experts and the latter for his gallant performance in a losing effort – but there were only brickbats for the third man in the ring, referee Harvey Dock.

Devin Haney was plainly ahead heading into the seventh frame when there was a sudden turnabout when Garcia put him on the canvas with his vaunted left hook. Moments later, Dock deducted a point from Garcia for a late punch coming out of a break. The deduction forced a temporary cease-fire that gave Haney a few precious seconds to regain his faculties. Before the round was over, Haney was on the deck twice more but these were ruled slips.

The deduction, which effectively negated the knockdown, struck many as too heavy-handed as Dock hadn’t previously issued a warning for this infraction. Moreover, many thought he could have taken a point away from Haney for excessive clinching. As for Haney’s second and third trips to the canvas in round seven, they struck this reporter – watching at home – as borderline, sufficient to give referee Dock the benefit of the doubt.

In a post-fight interview, Ryan Garcia faulted the referee for denying him the satisfaction of a TKO. “At the end of the day, Harvey Dock, I think he was tripping,” said Garcia. “He could have stopped that fight.”

Those that played the rounds proposition, placing their coin on the “under,” undoubtedly felt the same way.

The internet lit up with comments assailing Dock’s competence and/or his character. Some of the ponderings were whimsical, but they were swamped by the scurrilous screeching of dolts who find a conspiracy under every rock.

Stephen A. Smith, reputedly America’s highest-paid TV sports personality, was among those that felt a need to weigh-in: “This referee is absolutely terrible….Unreal! Horrible officiating,” tweeted Stephen A whose primary area of expertise is basketball.

Harvey Dock

Dock fought as an amateur and had one professional fight, winning a four-round decision over a fellow novice on a show at a non-gaming resort in the Pocono Mountains of Pennsylvania. He says that as an amateur he was merely average, but he was better than that, a New Jersey and regional amateur champion in 1993 and 1994 while a student New Jersey’s Essex County Community College where he majored in journalism.

A passionate fan of Sugar Ray Leonard, he started officiating amateur fights in 1998 and six years later, at age 32, had his first documented action at the professional level, working low-level cards in New Jersey. The top boxing referees, to a far greater extent than the top judges, had long apprenticeships, having worked their way up from the boonies and Dock is no exception.

Per boxrec, Haney vs Garcia was Harvey Dock’s 364^th assignment in the pros and his forty-second world title fight. Some of those title fights were title in name only, they weren’t even main events, but, bit by bit, more lucrative offerings started coming his way.

On May 13, 2023, Dock worked his first fights in Nevada, a 4-rounder and then a 12-rounder on a card at the Cosmopolitan topped by the 140-pound title fight between Rolly Romero and Ismael Barroso. It was the first time that this reporter got to watch Dock in the flesh.

Ironically (in hindsight), the card would be remembered for the actions of a referee, in this case Tony Weeks who handled the main event. Barroso was winning the fight on all three cards when Weeks stepped in and waived it off in the ninth round after Romero cornered Barroso against the ropes and let loose a barrage of punches, none of which landed cleanly. Few “premature stoppages” were ever as garishly, nay ghoulishly, premature.

With all the brickbats raining down on Weeks, I felt a need to tamp down the noise by diverting attention away from Tony Weeks and toward Harvey Dock and took to the TSS Forum to share my thoughts. Referencing the 12-rounder, a robust junior welterweight affair between Batyr Akhmedov and Kenneth Sims Jr, I noted that Dock’s Las Vegas debut went smoothly. He glided effortlessly around the ring, making him inconspicuous, the mark of a good referee. (This post ran on May 15, two days after the fight.)

Folks at the Nevada State Athletic Commission were also paying attention. Dock was back in Las Vegas the following week to referee the lightweight title fight between Devin Haney and Vasyl Lomachenko and before the year was out, he would be tabbed to referee the biggest non-heavyweight fight of the year, the July 29 match in Las Vegas between Terence Crawford and Errol Spence Jr.

The Haney-Garcia fight wasn’t Harvey Dock’s best hour, I’ll concede that, but a closer look at his full body of work informs us that he is an outstanding referee.

—

While the Haney-Garcia bout was in progress, WBC president Mauricio Sulaiman threw everyone a curve ball, tweeting on “X” that Devin Haney would keep his title if he lost the fight. Everyone, including the TV commentators, was under the impression that the title would become vacant in the event that Haney lost.

Sulaiman cited the precedent of Corrales-Castillo II.

FYI: The Corrales-Castillo rematch, originally scheduled for June 3, 2005 and aborted on the day prior when Castillo failed to make weight, finally came off on Oct. 8 of that year, notwithstanding the fact that Castillo failed to make weight once again, scaling three-and-a-half pounds above the lightweight limit. He knocked out Corrales in the fourth round with a left hook that Las Vegas Review-Journal boxing writer Kevin Iole, alluding to the movie “Blazing Saddles,” described as Mongo-esque (translation: the punch would have knocked out a horse). After initially insisting on a rubber match, which had scant chance of happening, WBC president Jose Sulaiman, Mauricio’s late father, ruled that Corrales could keep his title.

Whether or not you agree with Mauricio Sulaiman’s rationale, the timing of his announcement was certainly awkward.

Haney’s mandatory is Spanish southpaw Sandor Martin (42-3, 15 KOs), a cutie best known for his 2021 upset of Mikey Garcia. A bout between Haney and Martin has the earmarks of a dull fight.

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In a Shocker, Ryan Garcia Confounds the Experts and Upsets Devin Haney

Published

5 days ago

April 21, 2024

David A. Avila

In-a-Shocker-Ryan-Garcia-Confounds-the-Experts-and-Upsets-Devin-Haney

Its good to be crazy. Like a fox.

Ryan “KingRy” Garcia knocked down WBC super lightweight titlist Devin Haney three times to remind everyone of his fighting abilities in winning by majority decision on Saturday.

“I just knew what I could do,” Garcia said.

Fans will not forget the lanky kid from Victorville, California now.

Garcia (25-1, 20 KOs) fooled everyone in playing crazy weeks before the fight, then showed shocking power to hand Haney (30-1, 15 KOs) his first loss as a professional at Barclays Center in Brooklyn.

Haney’s WBC super lightweight title was not at stake for Garcia because he weighed three pounds over the limit.

After Garcia seemingly acting out of control on social media, Haney’s guard must have slipped in the first round during the first few seconds as Garcia connected with that hellish left hook and Haney, with a look of shock in his eyes, almost went down. He barely survived the first round.

“He caught me with it,” said Haney.

During the next few rounds, Haney proceeded to advance toward Garcia seemingly fully aware of the lethal left hook. He used feints and rights to score with a busier approach as Garcia seemed cocked and ready to counter with a left hook.

In the fourth round it seemed Haney was confident he had regained control of the fight, but every time he opened up with more than a two-punch combination Garcia reminded him whose hands were faster and more dangerous.

Though Garcia seldom jabbed he seemed bent on looking for the right moment to unleash his deadly left hook. And every time the Southern California fighter opened up with a combination he scored and Haney dare not exchange.

A few times Haney smiled as if signifying he escaped.

In the seventh round Haney looked to punish Garcia’s body and instead was met with a three-punch combination included a left hook to the chin and down went Haney slumped on the ground. He managed to beat the count and as soon as Garcia came within reach Haney wrapped his arms around him with a python grip. Despite the warnings by referee Harvey Dock, the fallen fighter would not release and Garcia impatiently fired a weak punch during the break. The referee deducted a point from Garcia though he could have deducted a point from Haney for not obeying his instructions to release his hold. Haney actually went down three times in the round but only one was counted by the referee.

From that point on Haney was very cautious but still looking to win by decision.

Though Garcia kept using a shoulder-roll defense that left his body exposed, he would retaliate with three and four punch combinations that usually Haney could defend against other fighters.. But Garcia’s blazing combinations were too fast to defend.

In the 10^th round Haney looked to attack and was countered by Garcia’s right and a blinding left hook to the chin and another two blows that sent the former undisputed lightweight champion to the floor again.

It didn’t look good for Haney to survive.

Garcia walked into the 11^th round still composed and never out-of-control He dared Haney to exchange and when within striking distance Garcia unleashed another lightning combination and down went Haney again with a defeated look.

Both fighters had fought each other as amateurs six times so there were no surprises between them. But Garcia’s power and speed were superior and that was the difference in a professional fight.

In the final round both were cautious with Garcia’s combination punching proving too dangerous for Haney to open up. Garcia celebrated early as the round ended confident of victory.

After 12 rounds Garcia was seen the victor by majority decision 112-112, 114-110, 115-109.

“You really thought I was crazy,” Garcia told the interviewer and the crowd. “You guys hated on me.”

Other Bouts

Arnold Barboza (30-0) won a curious split decision victory over United Kingdom’s Sean McComb (18-2) in a 10-round super lightweight fight. McComb’s long reach and busy southpaw style gave Barboza trouble. But he managed to win the fight though the crowd was not pleased.

Bektemir Melikuziev (14-1, 10 KOs) defeated France’s Pierre Dibombe (22-1-1) by technical decision after eight rounds due to a cut on his eye from an accidental head butt. It was a very competitive super middleweight fight.

Costa Rica’s David Jimenez (16-1, 11 KOs) outworked John “Scrappy Ramirez (13-1, 9 KOs) in a 12-round scrap to upset the Los Angeles based fighter. After a few close rounds Jimenez simply bullied his way inside and forced Ramirez against the ropes and unloaded his guns.

After 12 rounds two judges saw it 117-111 and 116-114 all for Jimenez.

“I’m a hard-working man from Cartago I come from nothing,” said Jimenez. “My corner told me I had to work inside.”

Charles Conwell (19-0, 14 KOs) stepped on the gas early with vicious body shots and uppercuts and blasted through the resilient Nathaniel Gallimore (22-8-1, 17 KOs) for several rounds. After a brutal fifth and sixth round the referee halted the one-side beating in favor of Conwell who was fighting for the first time under the Golden Boy banner.

Another winner was Sergiy Derevyanchenko (15-5) by decision over Vaughn Alexander (18-11-1) in a super middleweight match.

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