Discussing Floyd Vs. Golovkin and “TBE” at 160, or 154

Published

9 years ago

June 9, 2015

No, I do not sit around and clench my fists, and spend my energies on hoping and wishing and praying that Floyd Mayweather will get beat.

So when I put forth the notion that I think the man who calls himself TBE should tiptoe his most talented tush up to 160 pounds, so that he might find someone who can test him, I can’t be dismissed as a hater, as an anti-Floyd guy who wants him to get his comeuppance at the hands of a stronger man.

Now, do I think it’s debatable whether he is the BEST representation for our sport, whether the sport as a whole is best served by having Floyd as it’s top dog? I do…and I think I’d take the stance that long-term the sport would be helped by having a more humble, less money focused, more offensive minded pugilist leading its charge. But that doesn’t mean I dismiss the mans’ chops. Floyd Mayweather is among the best ever as a defender, he’s a defensive savant, and though I don’t consider him really to be in the TBE mix simply because I personally believe offense is at least 75% the most important component when you are choosing traits of TBE, I do scream to the heavens that he’s the best technical prizefighter of his generation.

But is he fan friendly to watch? No. One, because he doesn’t fully commit offensively, and whether that’s because he has brittle hands or is risk averse, that’s his reasoning to share, or not.

Because he is so far and away more talented than anyone he steps in with, there is a distinct lack of drama when we watch Floyd. He makes A grade fighters looks C grade, makes the Pacquiaos and Canelos look like comparative amateurs.

So, should he make the leap up to 168, to get in with Andre Ward? That is a bridge too far, though I have in the past pondered having Ward drain to 164 to make that fantasy fight…but I think a middle ground, a leap from 154, where he’s fought and performed well at, to 160, isn’t asking too much from the man who asks us to call him TBE.

Of course, his passionate backers will take to Twitter and defend him like they are getting paid to do so.

Woods, he’s not even a welterweight, they will cry..bizarrely, to me, as he totally is that, the best welterweight in the world…oh, and he’s the best junior middle in the world, to boot. They say “he’s a welterweight” like this is a guy who loads his pockets with lead to appear heavier than he is.

And I’m going to go out on a limb and say he’s the best middleweight in the world, too.

Yep, I think if Floyd stepped to the line, and agreed to fight Gennady Golovkin, he’d better Golovkin.

That same instinct to protect the chin would be in effect if “Money” gave us that big drama show against the mean-fisted hitter from Kazahkstan. Would there be risk for Floyd? Uh, yeah, sure. There is risk for anyone gloving up in a pro bout, basically. But I sort of think his risk to reward ratio has been pretty kind to him to this point, no?

His backers will go back to pointing out how small he is, tell you that he walks around at 155 pounds max…and use a tone which suggests he’s a woeful defender, who will be thrown to the wolves if he takes on a man in a weight class a step up from 154, where Floyd has held a belt. They use a tone which they don’t employ for the dozens of other boxers who ply their trade with the grim knowledge that they are burning off brain cells, risking CTE, as they eat punches. Robert Guerrero, he eats a dozen filthy power punches a fight now, and his brain pain gets rattled all the time, and the Floyd fans seem OK with that fact. But asking the guy who says he’s TBE to go out of his comfort zone, to a place where in fact the other guy might have the sort of power which could bother Mayweather, they make like that is asking for the sun and moon and stars. And…maybe it is.

Maybe those Golovkin fists are simply sledgehammers, and Floyd is too undersized to safely repel them. I posed this scenario to a guy who can speak to taking punches from someone who possesses a heavy power edge, Daniel Geale.

He was dropped twice by Miguel Cotto on Saturday night, and was in against a person who had a vast power edge over him, as, I guess, Triple G would over Floyd.

Geale doesn’t possess the defensive skills that Floyd does, so that power edge became significantly apparent to the masses at Barclays Center and on HBO. I asked Geale, what about it, is it asking too much for Floyd Mayweather to hop up six pounds, take his majestic skills to the middleweight division, to face off against a man regarded as an A grade middleweight, Gennady Golovkin?

“I believe so, I think it’s asking too much,” Geale told me. “And if he gets beat, then everyone will say, Well, he shouldn’t a went up in weight. He’s fighting guys so much bigger, so much stronger…and he is so skilled..but it just takes on punch. Boxing is a sport, you get hit with one punch, it can change a fighters’ career, a fight. I want to see him gets tested. But I’m not sure about him going up that far. Maybe he will out-box Golovkin but, who knows?”

Indeed; I think sometimes I think more of Floyd’s talent than some of his fans do. I think he handles middleweight, deals with and defuses Golovkin, but I think we will never know. Anyway, I will continue to add input from other boxers and such.

No surprise, Golovkins’ trainer Abel Sanchez thinks Floyd should step to the line. “If you want to be considered as one of the greatest ever you have to take on challenges a mortal man could not and would not, time has shown us that,” Sanchez told me. “That jump is very possible, one of the GREATEST lightweights ever Roberto Duran moved up two weight divisions and challenged the great Sugar Ray Leonard and then jumped up two more weight divisions and fought the established great middleweight champion Marvelous Marvin Hagler, both fights were of the boxing history-making kind.”

He continued: “It appears that most observers do not consider GGG a proven champion, a hype some say, unlike the previous greats (mentioned at time they fought), so the weight should not be an issue, even though GGG has stated he would consider a lighter weight, Floyd vs GGG would go down as one of those history making fights.”

People need to be reminded that the true greats did leap up in weight class back in the day, Sanchez told me. “It is so easy to throw the “The Greatest Ever” monicker around, in order for it to apply it has to be compared to something, the real greats of the past,” he stated.

Sanchez doubled back a couple days later, to add a thought:

“A thought: How would a fight between Floyd vs Hagler be looked at, at middleweight, would Floyd be too small still? If that fight is possible in the minds of GGG haters and not against GGG, imagine what would the outcome of GGG vs Hagler would be.”

Shane Mosley doesn’t think Floyd is suited to fight GGG at 160. “I don’t think Mayweather fights at middleweight, he is just too small,” Mosley told me. “GGG would have to come down and fight him at 154. Mayweather is really like a 140 pounder. Even if they met at 154 it would be a hard fight cause GGG is a natural 160.”

And really, is the power SOOO different at 154 and 160?

“The power could be really different,” he said. “Depends on the fighter and what kind of snap they have.”

Do you think Floyd couldn’t fight anyone at 160?

“I don’t know,” Mosley said. “He could come up against certain fighters but not GGG.”

Tureano Johnson told me he thinks damn straight, Floyd could do a fight at 160. The Bahamian middleweight said that, “A naturally big middleweight, like Triple G, would be too much. But the Cottos, Geales, Moras and Monroes, I think Mayweather could beat. And yes, I think Triple G beats Floyd…to the body.”

Promoter Tom Loeffler is happy to have his kid carve and starve to 154. Well, not happy, but accepting of the fact that Floyd works the system and sucks every bit of leverage out of a deal that he can. “We don’t want 154, but for Floyd Gennady would come down to 154,” Loeffler told me.

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Michael Woods

Ramirez Outpoints Barthelemy and Vergil Ortiz Scores Another Fast KO in Fresno

Published

2 hours ago

April 27, 2024

David A. Avila

Ramirez-Outpoints-Barthelemy-and-Vergil-Ortiz-Scores-Another-Fast-KO-in-Fresno

Northern California favorite Jose Ramirez avoided an upset and knockout artist Vergil Ortiz destroyed his opponent on Saturday to set up a showdown with Australia’s power-punching Tim Tszyu.

After a 13-month layoff Ramirez (29-1, 18 KOs) shook off ring rust and avoided an upset by Cuba’s Rances Barthelemy (30-3-1, 15 KOs) in a battle between former world champions at Save Mart Center in Fresno.

It was Ramirez’s first bout under Golden Boy Promotions and he was nearly derailed by the slick counter-punching southpaw in the third and six rounds with laser left counters that connected every time. Though he was floored in the third round it was ruled a push down by referee Jack Reiss.

Fans gasped.

“He throws that left hand and I got hit with it in one round,” Ramirez said. “It motivated him.”

Once Ramirez figured out the remedy, he kept the fight inside and attacked the body and head. Barthelemy was unable to uncork one of his long lefts at close distance.

From the seventh round on the former super lightweight champion took control and kept the Cuban fighter against the ropes and unloaded shots to the body and head. He nearly forced a stoppage in the 11^th round.

Barthelemy survived but all three judges scored it big for Ramirez after 12 rounds: 119-109 twice and 118-110.

Vergil KOs Number 21

Knowing a win sets up a massive showdown against Aussie slugger Tim Tszyu, the Texas slugger Vergil Ortiz (21-0, 21 KOs) wasted no time in blasting out Puerto Rico’s Thomas Dulorme (26-7-1, 17 KOs) with a perfectly placed left hook to the body. Dulorme collapsed to the ground in agony.

Referee Tom Taylor stopped counting at 2:39 of the first round.

“It was a very calculated punch,” Ortiz said.

It was a commanding one round performance that sets up the showdown against the equally powerful Tszyu who despite losing a split decision to Sebastian Fundora last month by split decision, retains his reputation as a dangerous puncher.

Ortiz, who has 21 knockouts in 21 fights, will probably be fighting Tszyu in Los Angeles on June 1 if all negotiations go smoothly.

“Tim (Tszyu) I know you are watching the fight,” said Ortiz. “I’m ready. Let’s put on a great performance.”

Other Bouts

Oscar Duarte (27-2-1, 22 KOs) proved his knockout loss against Ryan Garcia would not stop him from improving as he defeated Jojo Diaz (33-6-1) by knockout at 2:32 of the ninth round in a super lightweight match. Referee Michael Margado wisely stopped the bludgeoning as a towel came flying in almost simultaneously.

It was the first time Diaz was ever defeated by knockout, though he never touched the canvas. It was also the first time Duarte trained with Robert Garcia and the difference was notable as he repeatedly walked through incoming fire and attacked the smaller fighter continuously.

“I want to fight the best in the world,” Duarte said.

Female Title Fight

A rematch battle for the flyweight championship saw Argentina’s Gabriela Alaniz (15-1) defeat Marlen Esparza (14-2) this time with a two-fisted attack to win by split decision after 10 rounds.

Esparza failed to make weight and walked in three pounds overweight and Alaniz took advantage to win the WBA, WBC, and WBO flyweight titles in the rematch. Once again the scores were puzzling but this time in favor of Alaniz 97-93, 96-94, and 92-98.

Alaniz now holds the WBO, WBA, WBC flyweight world titles.

Welterweights

Mexico’s Raul Curiel (15-0, 13 KOs) busted body shots on Jorge Marron Jr. (20-5-2) and floored him twice in the first round. The second body blow left Marron paralyzed and unable to continue at 1:31 of the first round as referee Thomas Taylor counted him out.

Curiel, who is managed by Frank Espinoza and son, proved he’s ready for the upper levels of the welterweight division.

“I think I’m ready for the bigger names,” Curiel said. “You see the results.”

Photo credit: Cris Esqueda / Golden Boy

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Avila Perspective, Chap. 282: Ryan’s Song, Golden Boy in Fresno and More

Published

2 days ago

April 26, 2024

David A. Avila

Avila Perspective, Chap. 282: Ryan’s Song, Golden Boy in Fresno and More

Don’t call it an upset.

Days after Ryan Garcia proved the experts wrong, those same experts are re-tooling their evaluation processes.

It’s mind-boggling to me that 95 percent thought Garcia had no chance. Hear me out.

First, Garcia and Haney fought six times as amateurs with each winning three. But this time with no head gear and smaller gloves, Garcia had to have at least a 50/50 chance of winning. He is faster and a more powerful puncher.

Facts.

Haney is a wonderful boxer with smooth, almost artistic movements. But history has taught us power and speed like Garcia’s can’t be discounted. Think way back to legendary fighters like Willie Pep and Sandy Sadler. All that excellent defensive skill could not prevent Sadler from beating Pep in three of their four meetings.

Power has always been an equalizer against boxing skill.

Ben Lira, one of the wisest and most experienced trainers in Southern California, always professed knockout power was the greatest equalizer in a fight. “You can be behind for nine rounds and one punch can change the outcome,” he said.

Another weird theory spreading before the fight was that Garcia would quit in the fight. That was a puzzling one. Getting stopped by a perfect body shot is not quitting. And that punch came from Gervonta “Tank” Davis who can really crack.

So how did Garcia do it?

In the opening round Ryan Garcia timed Devin Haney’s jab and countered with a snapping left hook that rattled and wobbled the super lightweight champion. After that, Garcia forced Haney to find another game plan.

Garcia and trainer Derrick James must have worked hours on that move.

I must confess that I first saw Garcia’s ability many years ago when he was around 11 or 12. So I do have an advantage regarding his talent. A few things I noticed even back then were his speed and power. Also, that others resented his talent but respected him. He was the guy with everything: talent and looks.

And that brings resentment.

Recently I saw him and his crew rapping a song on social media. Now he’s got a song. Next thing you know Hollywood will be calling and he’ll be in the movies. It’s happened before with fighters such as Art Aragon, the first Golden Boy in the 50s. He was dating movie stars and getting involved with starlets all over Hollywood.

Is history repeating itself or is Garcia creating a new era for boxing?

Since 2016 people claimed he was just a social media creation. Now, after his win over Devin Haney a former undisputed lightweight champion and the WBC super lightweight titleholder, the boxer from the high desert area of Victorville has become one of the highest paid fighters in the world.

Ryan Garcia has entered a new dimension.

Golden Boy Season

After several down years the Los Angeles-based company Golden Boy Promotions suddenly is cracking the whip in 2024.

Avila

Vergil Ortiz Jr. (20-0, 20 KOs) returns to the ring and faces Puerto Rico’s Thomas Dulorme (26-6-1, 17 KOs) a welterweight gatekeeper who lost to Jaron “Boots” Ennis and Eimantas Stanionis. They meet as super welterweights in the co-main event at Save Mart Arena in Fresno, Calif. on Saturday, April 27. DAZN will stream the Golden Boy Promotions card live.

It’s a quick return to action for Ortiz who is still adjusting to the new weight division. His last fight three months ago ended in less than one round in Las Vegas. It was cut short by an antsy referee and left Ortiz wanting more after more than a year of inactivity in the prize ring.

Ortiz has all the weapons.

Also, Northern California’s Jose Carlos Ramirez (28-1, 18 KOs) meets Cuba’s Rances Barthelemy (30-2-1, 15 KOs) in a welterweight affair set for 12 rounds.

It’s difficult to believe that former super lightweight titlist Ramirez has been written off by fans after only one loss. That was several years ago against Scotland’s Josh Taylor. One loss does not mean the end of a career.

“My goal is to get back on top and to get all those belts back. I still feel like I am one of the best 140-pounders in the division,” said Ramirez who lives in nearby Avenal, Calif.

An added major attraction features Marlen Esparza in a unification rematch against Gabriela “La Chucky” Alaniz for the WBA, WBC, WBO flyweight titles. Their first fight was

a controversial win by Esparza that saw one judge give her nine of 10 rounds in a very close fight. Those Texas judges.

In a match that could steal the show, Oscar Duarte (26-2-1, 21 KOs) faces former world champion Jojo Diaz (33-5-1, 15 KOs) in a lightweight match.

Munguia and Canelo

Don’t sleep on this match.

Its current Golden Boy fighter Jaime Munguia facing former Golden Boy fighter Saul “Canelo” Alvarez in a battle between Mexico’s greatest sluggers next week at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas on May 4.

“I think Jaime Munguia is going to do something special in the ring,” said Oscar De La Hoya, the CEO for Golden Boy.

Tijuana’s Munguia showed up at the Wild Card Boxing gym in Hollywood where a throng of media from Mexico and the US met him.

Munguia looked confident and happy about his opportunity to fight great Canelo.

“It’s a hard fight,” said Munguia. “Truth is, its big for Mexico and not only for Mexicans but for boxing.”

Fights to Watch

Fri. DAZN 6 p.m. Yoeniz Tellez (7-0) vs Joseph Jackson (19-0).

Sat. DAZN 9:30 a.m. Peter McGrail (8-1) vs Marc Leach (18-3-1); Beatriz Ferreira (4-0) vs Yanina Del Carmen 14-3).

Sat. DAZN 5 p.m. Vergil Ortiz (20-0) vs Thomas Dulorme (26-6-1); Jose Carlos Ramirez (28-1) vs Rances Barthelemy (30-2-1); Marlen Esparza (14-1) vs Gabriela Alaniz (14-1).

Photo credit: Cris Esqueda / Golden Boy Promotions

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Ramon Cardenas Channels Micky Ward and KOs Eduardo Ramirez on ProBox

Published

3 days ago

April 24, 2024

Arne K. Lang

Ramon-Cardenas-Channels-Micky-Ward-and-KOs-Eduardo-Ramirez-on-ProBox

The Wednesday night bi-monthly series of fights on the ProBox TV platform is the best deal in boxing; the livestream is free with no strings attached! Tonight’s episode was headlined by a super bantamweight match between San Antonio’s Ramon Cardenas and Eduardo Ramirez who brought a caravan of rooters from his hometown in Guaymas, Sonora, Mexico.

Cardenas, coached by Joel Diaz, entered the contest ranked #4 by the WBA. He was expected to handle Ramirez with little difficulty, but this was a close, tactical fight through eight frames when lightning struck in the form of a left hook to the liver from Cardenas. Ramirez went down on one knee and wasn’t able to beat the count. It was as if Cardenas summoned the ghost of Micky Ward who had a penchant for terminating fights with the same punch that arrived out of the blue.

The official time was 1:37 of round nine. Cardenas improved to 25-1 with his14th win inside the distance. Ramirez, who was stopped in the opening round by Nick “Wrecking” Ball in London in his lone previous fight outside Mexico, falls to 23-3-3.

Co-Feature

In an upset, Tijuana super welterweight Damian Sosa won a split decision over previously undefeated Marques Valle, a local area fighter who was stepping up in class in his first 10-round go. Sosa was the aggressor, repeatedly backing his taller opponent into the ropes where Valle was unable to get good leverage behind his punches.

The 25-year-old Valle, managed by the influential David McWater, was the house fighter. This was his 10^th appearance in this building. He brought a 10-0 (7) record and was hoping to emulate the success of his younger brother Dominic Valle who scored a second-round stoppage of his opponent in this ring two weeks ago, improving to 9-0. But Sosa, who brought a 24-2 record, proved to be a bridge too high.

The judges had it 97-93 and 96-94 for the Tijuana invader and a disgraceful 98-92 for the house fighter.

Also

In a fight whose abrupt ending would be echoed by the main event, 34-year-old SoCal featherweight Ronny Rios, now training in Las Vegas, returned to the ring after a 22-month hiatus and scored a fifth-round stoppage over Nicolas Polanco of the Dominican Republic.

A three-punch combo climaxed by a left hook to the liver took the breath out of Polanco who slumped to his knees and was counted out. A two-time world title challenger, Rios advanced to 34-4 (17 KOs). Polanco, 34, declined to 21-6-1. The official time was 0:54 of round five.

—

The next ProBox show (Wednesday, May 8) will have an international cast with fighters from Kazakhstan, Japan, Mongolia, and the United Kingdom. In the main event, Liverpool’s Robbie Davies Jr will make his U.S. debut against the California-based Kazakh Sergey Lipinets.

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