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Steve Little Should Have Come Up Bigger

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There is a saying among compulsive gamblers: The next best thing to playing and winning is playing and losing.

Perhaps the opposite is true of certain fringe boxing contenders who, for one magic moment, rise above their circumstances and become champions. For those predetermined by fate to fail even when they succeed, the next worst thing to fighting for a title and losing can be fighting for a title and winning.

The late Steve Little is in a Hall of Fame – the Pennsylvania Boxing Hall of Fame – but there never will be a time when any member of his large family receives a telephone call from Ed Brophy, the executive director of the International Boxing Hall of Fame, relaying the good news that the Reading, Pa., native has been elected to the IBHOF. Not even Little’s most ardent admirers, and there are many in Reading and Philadelphia, have any illusions about his standing in boxing history. He is a minor footnote in the annals of the sport he loved, but didn’t always love him back. That makes him one of many dreamers and pluggers who give so much of themselves and receive so, well, little in return.

When Steve Little shocked Michael Nunn – as a 40-to-1 underdog – to capture the WBA super middleweight championship in London on Feb. 26, 1994, it should have been the proudest moment of his professional life. And, really, it was. But the giddy blush of victory was soon replaced by the sobering reality that he was an unmarketable champion with a mediocre record, no discernible punching power and a promoter who probably wanted him quickly dethroned by a more high-profile client. So what if Little was one of boxing’s good guys, a solid citizen with a wife and six kids at home? No bejeweled championship belt was ever going to elevate him above what he already was: a disposable and easily replaceable commodity.

All of which makes Little’s one-and-done reign as the WBA 168-pound champ – he dropped a unanimous decision to Frankie Liles on Aug. 12, 1994, in Argentina – unfortunate, but hardly a tragedy. The real tragedies came in February 1999 when Little was diagnosed with colon cancer, and Jan. 30, 2000, when, at 34, he succumbed to the dreaded disease.

“Steve Little was the most courageous person I’ve been around,” Rob Murray Sr., Little’s former manager, who, somewhat ironically, three months later would also succumb to cancer, said in March 2012. “He fought those last few fights (Little was 3-3-1 after upsetting Nunn) when he was terminally ill, although nobody knew it then. One day he was playing around in the gym with this guy, and he started bleeding and it wouldn’t stop. That’s when they found he had Stage 4 cancer.”

Bernard “The Alien” Hopkins, the former middleweight and light heavyweight champion whose eventual first-ballot induction into the IBHOF is guaranteed as anything ever gets, counts himself fortunate to have been Little’s friend.

“We were close, age-wise (Hopkins is 50; Little would now be 49 had he lived), and in other ways, too,” Hopkins said. “He traveled from Reading to North Philadelphia every day to Champ’s Gym when I trained there, so a lot of people thought he was from Philly. He was also a first or second cousin of Meldrick Taylor, I can’t remember which, which also kind of played into that that perception.

“We became friends because A, I need a sparring partner and B, he was a veteran who began fighting long before I did, at least in the pros. If Steve told you he would do something, he did it. I never heard nobody talking bad about him. I mean, how could they? As a man, they don’t come any better.”

So, what did Hopkins think of Little, whose final record – 25-17-3, with just six victories inside the distance – as a fighter?

“Steve was a bold, durable guy who couldn’t crack an egg, but he had a good chin and he was relentless,” Hopkins recalled. “He might not have been a pound-for-pound guy, but trust me, he would give any top fighter all he could handle. Even when he didn’t win, the other guy came away knowing he had been in a scrap. Steve was all heart and determination. “

A devoted husband and father, a straight shooter who never embarrassed himself or his loved ones in or out of the ring, Little’s stunner over Nunn should at least have afforded him a chance for one major score, which would at least provide some measure of financial stability for the family whose welfare was always his first priority. But professional boxing is a business, and Steve Little as world champion was never going to contribute to the bottom line of the sport’s true power brokers.

The late Butch Lewis once told me a story that sounded like it could have been true, and since has been confirmed by one of the principals. It is a tale of expediency over compassion, and the greater likelihood of blood being spilled inside the ropes than the milk of human kindness being ladled at a negotiating table.

To secure his shot at Nunn, Little had to sign over options to Nunn’s then-promoter, Don King, which was and is standard practice among certain operatives in a cutthroat industry. It never occurred to anyone, certainly not Nunn or King, that Little would actually win. But win he did, the guy who “couldn’t crack an egg” flooring Nunn in the first round and going on to take a 12-round split decision.

According to Butch Lewis, King’s plan was to have Little make his first title defense against one of the most devastating punchers of the era, Gerald McClellan, for a payday not much larger than the then-career-high $60,000 (minus deductions, of course) for challenging Nunn. Little might have been willing to fight anybody, but if he was going to sign up for an inevitable beatdown from McClellan, he wanted what he considered to be fair compensation.

Bill Cayton, who managed the popular Vinny Pazienza, a good fighter but someone who wasn’t as likely as McClellan to hospitalize an opponent, thought Little was just vulnerable enough to again make the “Pazmanian Devil” a world champion. But Cayton had lost control of Mike Tyson to King, the two men were none too fond of each other, and Cayton was never going to sign over options on Pazienza in any case. So Cayton enlisted Lewis to approach King with an offer: a much larger purse for Little to defend against Pazienza, without signing over options. Not surprisingly, King refused and Little wound up relinquishing his title to Liles for a reported $100,000, of which he probably was fortunate to receive half.

Not the kind of jackpot that would long ensure the financial well-being of a family as large as Little’s.

I talked to Pazienza – he goes by Vinny Paz now – and he said Cayton had indeed told him he was angling to secure a title shot at Little, but things never worked out, “I think because of King.”

“I never met Steve Little, but I think I would have liked him,” Paz continued. “He just seemed like a good guy, and I know he was a tough little bleeper. Me and him would have been a real battle, although I think I would have beat him.”

Little’s subsequent illness and death placed a significant financial burden on his widow, Wanda, a stay-at-home mother who considered him so much more than the family breadwinner.

“My husband was one-of-a-kind in many amazing ways,” Wanda said. “People here (in Reading) remember him as much or more for his good deeds as for his boxing He was my best friend, someone who worked so hard to be a great provider. I was blessed to have him for as long as I did.”

When contacted for this story, King said he did not recall particulars of the 5½-month period between Little’s unexpected upset of Nunn and the loss to Liles.

“The Rolodex is spinning in my brain,” he allowed after momentarily pondering the question. “Steve Little was a guy who really wanted to do something, but he never got the opportunity until we gave him the opportunity. He saw his chance and seized the moment. He pulled it off, and you got to give him credit for that.”

Asked if the Butch Lewis version of the way events played out is factual, King said, “It’s not my recollection, but I can’t really say how that went down. It’s, what, 20 years ago? Look, I understood Bill Cayton. One of the assets God blessed me with is the ability to look or talk to a person and almost tell what they will or will not do in certain circumstances. Bill Cayton was Bill Cayton, and I would go against him on anything I thought was not right. And I won more times than I lost.”

Hopkins, who does not part with his hard-earned cash readily, tried to do right by his late friend when he pledged $200,000 of his purse for the Feb. 2, 2002, defense of his undisputed middleweight title against Carl Daniels, in Reading, to the Little family. It was a magnanimous gesture, but one that didn’t help as much as it might have. Hopkins said he has heard reports that a slick operator, promising huge returns on investments, talked Wanda Little out of $100,000, which soon evaporated like morning dew.

“I heard that that guy was right on her, telling her about all these ideas he had on how she could double the money,” Hopkins said. “It was like one of those Ponzi schemes, from what I heard. She really got took.

“If I had to do it all over again, I would have set her up with some reputable financial planner, somebody who was licensed and bonded. I can’t beat myself up about it now because I tried to do a good thing, but looking back, I think I could have done more.”

King might not be all that clear on the aftermath of Little’s longshot win over Nunn, but he keenly remembers the run-up to that fight. He said Nunn, who is now serving hard time in an Iowa penitentiary on a cocaine trafficking conviction, lost his title more because of overconfidence and lackadaisical training preparations than because of anything Little had done.

“Michael Nunn was one of the most misguided fighters I’ve ever met – one of the most misguided people, actually,” His Hairness opined. “He was a great fighter, but he messed around, got caught selling drugs to an undercover agent and now he’s in prison. What a waste. He was a very talented guy. He went out searching for something he already had, in an illicit type of situation.”

Upon his Steve Sr.’s induction into the Pennsylvania Boxing Hall of Fame on March 11, 2012, Steve Little Jr., then a sergeant in the United States Marine Corps, disputed any notion that his dad had won his championship only because Nunn was out of shape and undisciplined.

“I finally got to see the DVD of that fight, in 2008 after I obtained it from a boxing historian when I was stationed at Cherry Point (North Carolina),” he said. “This was not a case of Michael Nunn fighting down to a lower level; he was fighting just as hard as my dad was fighting his fight. But, on that night, my dad was the better man.”

Not every winning lottery ticket pays off to the same extent. A 42-1 underdog, James “Buster” Douglas, knocked out heavyweight champion Mike Tyson on Feb. 10, 1990, and in his first defense, in which he relinquished his crown on a third-round KO by Evander Holyfield, he earned $23.2 million. Four years later, as a 40-1 no-hoper, Little outpointed Nunn and made 1/232nd of Big Buster’s windfall.

In boxing, as in life, the scales of justice do not always balance. The good often die young and virtue sometimes goes unrewarded. But for one glorious moment forever frozen in time, Steve Little won a fight no one thought him capable of winning. That is something all of us can aspire to, and reason enough to keep the small flame lighting the memory of a special but mostly forgotten champion from flickering and dying out entirely.

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Avila Perspective, Chap. 323: Benn vs Eubank Family Feud and More

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Next generation rivals Conor Benn and Chris Eubank Jr. carry on the family legacy of feudal warring in the prize ring on Saturday.

This is huge in British boxing.

Eubank (34-3, 25 KOs) holds the fringe IBO middleweight title but won’t be defending it against the smaller welterweight Benn (23-0, 14 KOs) on Saturday, April 26, at Tottenham Hotspur Stadium in London. DAZN will stream the Matchroom Boxing card.

This is about family pride.

The parents of Eubank and Benn actually began the feud in the 1990s.

Papa Nigel Benn fought Papa Chris Eubank twice. Losing as a middleweight in November 1990 at Birmingham, England, then fighting to a draw as a super middleweight in October 1993 in Manchester. Both were world title fights.

Eubank was undefeated and won the WBO middleweight world title in 1990 against Nigel Benn by knockout. He defended it three times before moving up and winning the vacant WBO super middleweight title in September 1991. He defended the super middleweight title 14 times before suffering his first pro defeat in March 1995 against Steve Collins.

Benn won the WBO middleweight title in April 1990 against Doug DeWitt and defended it once before losing to Eubank in November 1990. He moved up in weight and took the WBC super middleweight title from Mauro Galvano in Italy by technical knockout in October 1992. He defended the title nine times until losing in March 1996. His last fight was in November 1996, a loss to Steve Collins.

Animosity between the two families continues this weekend in the boxing ring.

Conor Benn, the son of Nigel, has fought mostly as a welterweight but lately has participated in the super welterweight division. He is several inches shorter in height than Eubank but has power and speed. Kind of a British version of Gervonta “Tank” Davis.

“It’s always personal, every opponent I fight is personal. People want to say it’s strictly business, but it’s never business. If someone is trying to put their hands on me, trying to render me unconscious, it’s never business,” said Benn.

This fight was scheduled twice before and cut short twice due to failed PED tests by Benn. The weight limit agreed upon is 160 pounds.

Eubank, a natural middleweight, has exchanged taunts with Benn for years. He recently avenged a loss to Liam Smith with a knockout victory in September 2023.

“This fight isn’t about size or weight. It’s about skill. It’s about dedication. It’s about expertise and all those areas in which I excel in,” said Eubank. “I have many, many more years of experience over Conor Benn, and that will be the deciding factor of the night.”

Because this fight was postponed twice, the animosity between the two feuding fighters has increased the attention of their fans. Both fighters are anxious to flatten each other.

“He’s another opponent in my way trying to crush my dreams. trying to take food off my plate and trying to render me unconscious. That’s how I look at him,” said Benn.

Eubank smiles.

“Whether it’s boxing, whether it’s a gun fight. Defense, offense, foot movement, speed, power. I am the superior boxer in each of those departments and so many more – which is why I’m so confident,” he said.

Supporting Bout

Former world champion Liam Smith (33-4-1, 20 KOs) tangles with Ireland’s Aaron McKenna (19-0, 10 KOs) in a middleweight fight set for 12 rounds on the Benn-Eubank undercard in London.

“Beefy” Smith has long been known as one of the fighting Smith brothers and recently lost to Eubank a year and a half ago. It was only the second time in 38 bouts he had been stopped. Saul “Canelo” Alvarez did it several years ago.

McKenna is a familiar name in Southern California. The Irish fighter fought numerous times on Golden Boy Promotion cards between 2017 and 2019 before returning to the United Kingdom and his assault on continuing the middleweight division. This is a big step for the tall Irish fighter.

It’s youth versus experience.

“I’ve been calling for big fights like this for the last two or three years, and it’s a fight I’m really excited for. I plan to make the most of it and make a statement win on Saturday night,” said McKenna, one of two fighting brothers.

Monster in L.A.

Japan’s super star Naoya “Monster” Inoue arrived in Los Angeles for last day workouts before his Las Vegas showdown against Ramon Cardenas on Sunday May 4, at T-Mobile Arena. ESPN will televise and stream the Top Rank card.

It’s been four years since the super bantamweight world champion performed in the US and during that time Naoya (29-0, 26 KOs) gathered world titles in different weight divisions. The Japanese slugger has also gained fame as perhaps the best fighter on the planet. Cardenas is 26-1 with 14 KOs.

Pomona Fights

Super featherweights Mathias Radcliffe (9-0-1) and Ezequiel Flores (6-4) lead a boxing card called “DMG Night of Champions” on Saturday April 26, at the historic Fox Theater in downtown Pomona, Calif.

Michaela Bracamontes (11-2-1) and Jesus Torres Beltran (8-4-1) will be fighting for a regional WBC super featherweight title. More than eight bouts are scheduled.

Doors open at 6 p.m. For ticket information go to: www.tix.com/dmgnightofchampions

Fights to Watch

Sat. DAZN 9 a.m. Conor Benn (23-0) vs Chris Eubank Jr. (34-3); Liam Smith (33-4-1) vs Aaron McKenna (19-0).

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Floyd Mayweather has Another Phenom and his name is Curmel Moton

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Floyd Mayweather has Another Phenom and his name is Curmel Moton

In any endeavor, the defining feature of a phenom is his youth. Philadelphia Phillies outfielder Bryce Harper was a phenom. He was on the radar screen of baseball’s most powerful player agents when he was 14 years old.

Curmel Moton, who turns 19 in June, is a phenom. Of all the young boxing stars out there, wrote James Slater in July of last year, “Curmel Moton is the one to get most excited about.”

Moton was born in Salt Lake City, Utah. His father Curtis Moton, a barber by trade, was a big boxing fan and specifically a big fan of Floyd Mayweather Jr. When Curmel was six, Curtis packed up his wife (Curmel’s stepmom) and his son and moved to Las Vegas. Curtis wanted his son to get involved in boxing and there was no better place to develop one’s latent talents than in Las Vegas where many of the sport’s top practitioners came to train.

Many father-son relationships have been ruined, or at least frayed, by a father’s unrealistic expectations for his son, but when it came to boxing, the boy was a natural and he felt right at home in the gym.

The gym the Motons patronized was the Mayweather Boxing Club. Curtis took his son there in hopes of catching the eye of the proprietor. “Floyd would occasionally drop by the gym and I was there so often that he came to recognize me,” says Curmel. What he fails to add is that the trainers there had Floyd’s ear. “This kid is special,” they told him.

It costs a great deal of money for a kid to travel around the country competing in a slew of amateur boxing tournaments. Only a few have the luxury of a sponsor. For the vast majority, fund raisers such as car washes keep the wheels greased.

Floyd Mayweather stepped in with the financial backing needed for the Motons to canvas the country in tournaments. As an amateur, Curmel was — take your pick — 156-7 or 144-6 or 61-3 (the latter figure from boxrec). Regardless, at virtually every tournament at which he appeared, Curmel Moton was the cock of the walk.

Before the pandemic, Floyd Mayweather Jr had a stable of boxers he promoted under the banner of “The Money Team.” In talking about his boxers, Floyd was understated with one glaring exception – Gervonta “Tank” Davis, now one of boxing’s top earners.

When Floyd took to praising Curmel Moton with the same effusive language, folks stood up and took notice.

Curmel made his pro debut on Sept. 30, 2023, at the T-Mobile Arena in Las Vegas on the undercard of the super middleweight title fight between Canelo Alvarez and Jermell Charlo. After stopping his opponent in the opening round, he addressed a flock of reporters in the media room with Floyd standing at his side. “I felt ready,” he said, “I knew I had Floyd behind me. He believes in me. I had the utmost confidence going into the fight. And I went in there and did what I do.”

Floyd ventured the opinion that Curmel was already a better fighter than Leigh Wood, the reigning WBA world featherweight champion who would successfully defend his belt the following week.

Moton’s boxing style has been described as a blend of Floyd Mayweather and Tank Davis. “I grew up watching Floyd, so it’s natural I have some similarities to him,” says Curmel who sparred with Tank in late November of 2021 as Davis was preparing for his match with Isaac “Pitbull” Cruz. Curmell says he did okay. He was then 15 years old and still in school; he dropped out as soon as he reached the age of 16.

Curmel is now 7-0 with six KOs, four coming in the opening round. He pitched an 8-round shutout the only time he was taken the distance. It’s not yet official, but he returns to the ring on May 31 at Mandalay Bay in Las Vegas where Caleb Plant and Jermall Charlo are co-featured in matches conceived as tune-ups for a fall showdown. The fight card will reportedly be free for Amazon Prime Video subscribers.

Curmel’s presumptive opponent is Renny Viamonte, a 28-year-old Las Vegas-based Cuban with a 4-1-1 (2) record. It will be Curmel’s first professional fight with Kofi Jantuah the chief voice in his corner. A two-time world title challenger who began his career in his native Ghana, the 50-year-old Jantuah has worked almost exclusively with amateurs, a recent exception being Mikaela Mayer.

It would seem that the phenom needs a tougher opponent than Viamonte at this stage of his career. However, the match is intriguing in one regard. Viamonte is lanky. Listed at 5-foot-11, he will have a seven-inch height advantage.

Keeping his weight down has already been problematic for Moton. He tipped the scales at 128 ½ for his most recent fight. His May 31 bout, he says, will be contested at 135 and down the road it’s reasonable to think he will blossom into a welterweight. And with each bump up in weight, his short stature will theoretically be more of a handicap.

For fun, we asked Moton to name the top fighter on his pound-for-pound list. “[Oleksandr] Usyk is number one right now,” he said without hesitation,” great footwork, but guys like Canelo, Crawford, Inoue, and Bivol are right there.”

It’s notable that there isn’t a young gun on that list. Usyk is 38, a year older than Crawford; Inoue is the pup at age 32.

Moton anticipates that his name will appear on pound-for-pound lists within the next two or three years. True, history is replete with examples of phenoms who flamed out early, but we wouldn’t bet against it.

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Arne’s Almanac: The First Boxing Writers Assoc. of America Dinner Was Quite the Shindig

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The first annual dinner of the Boxing Writers Association of America was staged on April 25, 1926 in the grand ballroom of New York’s Hotel Astor, an edifice that rivaled the original Waldorf Astoria as the swankiest hotel in the city. Back then, the organization was known as the Boxing Writers Association of Greater New York.

The ballroom was configured to hold 1200 for the banquet which was reportedly oversubscribed. Among those listed as agreeing to attend were the governors of six states (New York, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, Connecticut, and Maryland) and the mayors of 10 of America’s largest cities.

In 1926, radio was in its infancy and the digital age was decades away (and inconceivable). So, every journalist who regularly covered boxing was a newspaper and/or magazine writer, editor, or cartoonist. And at this juncture in American history, there were plenty of outlets for someone who wanted to pursue a career as a sportswriter and had the requisite skills to get hired.

The following papers were represented at the inaugural boxing writers’ dinner:

New York Times

New York News

New York World

New York Sun

New York Journal

New York Post

New York Mirror

New York Telegram

New York Graphic

New York Herald Tribune

Brooklyn Eagle

Brooklyn Times

Brooklyn Standard Union

Brooklyn Citizen

Bronx Home News

This isn’t a complete list because a few of these papers, notably the New York World and the New York Journal, had strong afternoon editions that functioned as independent papers. Plus, scribes from both big national wire services (Associated Press and UPI) attended the banquet and there were undoubtedly a smattering of scribes from papers in New Jersey and Connecticut.

Back then, the event’s organizer Nat Fleischer, sports editor of the New York Telegram and the driving force behind The Ring magazine, had little choice but to limit the journalistic component of the gathering to writers in the New York metropolitan area. There wasn’t a ballroom big enough to accommodate a good-sized response if he had extended the welcome to every boxing writer in North America.

The keynote speaker at the inaugural dinner was New York’s charismatic Jazz Age mayor James J. “Jimmy” Walker, architect of the transformative Walker Law of 1920 which ushered in a new era of boxing in the Empire State with a template that would guide reformers in many other jurisdictions.

Prizefighting was then associated with hooligans. In his speech, Mayor Walker promised to rid the sport of their ilk. “Boxing, as you know, is closest to my heart,” said hizzoner. “So I tell you the police force is behind you against those who would besmirch or injure boxing. Rowdyism doesn’t belong in this town or in your game.” (In 1945, Walker would be the recipient of the Edward J. Neil Memorial Award given for meritorious service to the sport. The oldest of the BWAA awards, the previous recipients were all active or former boxers. The award, no longer issued under that title, was named for an Associated Press sportswriter and war correspondent who died from shrapnel wounds covering the Spanish Civil War.)

Another speaker was well-traveled sportswriter Wilbur Wood, then affiliated with the Brooklyn Citizen. He told the assembly that the aim of the organization was two-fold: to help defend the game against its detractors and to promote harmony among the various factions.

Of course, the 1926 dinner wouldn’t have been as well-attended without the entertainment. According to press dispatches, Broadway stars and performers from some of the city’s top nightclubs would be there to regale the attendees. Among the names bandied about were vaudeville superstars Sophie Tucker and Jimmy Durante, the latter of whom would appear with his trio, Durante, (Lou) Clayton, and (Eddie) Jackson.

There was a contraction of New York newspapers during the Great Depression. Although empirical evidence is lacking, the inaugural boxing writers dinner was likely the largest of its kind. Fifteen years later, in 1941, the event drew “more than 200” according to a news report. There was no mention of entertainment.

In 1950, for the first time, the annual dinner was opened to the public. For $25, a civilian could get a meal and mingle with some of his favorite fighters. Sugar Ray Robinson was the Edward J. Neil Award winner that year, honored for his ring exploits and for donating his purse from the Charlie Fusari fight to the Damon Runyon Cancer Fund.

There was no formal announcement when the Boxing Writers Association of Greater New York was re-christened the Boxing Writers Association of America, but by the late 1940s reporters were referencing the annual event as simply the boxing writers dinner. By then, it had become traditional to hold the annual affair in January, a practice discontinued after 1971.

The winnowing of New York’s newspaper herd plus competing banquets in other parts of the country forced Nat Fleischer’s baby to adapt. And more adaptations will be necessary in the immediate future as the future of the BWAA, as it currently exists, is threatened by new technologies. If the forthcoming BWAA dinner (April 30 at the Edison Ballroom in mid-Manhattan) were restricted to wordsmiths from the traditional print media, the gathering would be too small to cover the nut and the congregants would be drawn disproportionately from the geriatric class.

Some of those adaptations have already started. Last year, Las Vegas resident Sean Zittel, a recent UNLV graduate, had the distinction of becoming the first videographer welcomed into the BWAA. With more and more people getting their news from sound bites, rather than the written word, the videographer serves an important function.

The reporters who conducted interviews with pen and paper have gone the way of the dodo bird and that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. A taped interview for a “talkie” has more integrity than a story culled from a paper and pen interview because it is unfiltered. Many years ago, some reporters, after interviewing the great Joe Louis, put  words in his mouth that made him seem like a dullard, words consistent with the Sambo stereotype. In other instances, the language of some athletes was reconstructed to the point where the reader would think the athlete had a second job as an English professor.

The content created by videographers is free from that bias. More of them will inevitably join the BWAA and similar organizations in the future.

Photo: Nat Fleischer is flanked by Sugar Ray Robinson and Tony Zale at the 1947 boxing writers dinner.

A recognized authority on the history of prizefighting and the history of American sports gambling, TSS editor-in-chief Arne K. Lang is the author of five books including “Prizefighting: An American History,” released by McFarland in 2008 and re-released in a paperback edition in 2020.
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