Roy Jones Has A Better Case For “TBE” Than Floyd Mayweather

Published

9 years ago

June 11, 2015

Fighters fight, that’s what they do.

Real fighters never fear they might lose, instead they go into the ring wholeheartedly believing they are going to win regardless of who is coming out of the opposite corner. And ultimately they fight on too long and eventually suffer losses to opponents who they wouldn’t even have paid to spar with them during their prime. The losses on their record begin to mount and slowly but surely the observers who saw them when they were practically untouchable forget about the supreme fighters they once were.

If there is a better case or example of the above, I can’t think of one better than former three division champ Roy Jones 61-8 (44).

Between 1989 and 2003, Roy was one of the most physically skilled and gifted fighters of the last 50 years, easily. Roy was the perfect blend of athleticism, speed and power. He had blinding hand and foot speed, could fight in retreat or he could counter punch and when he chose to, he could take the initiative and explode offensively. And what a terrific body puncher he was.

During the years 1989-2003, Roy was a maestro in the ring, he really was. As a former fighter, it was easy to appreciate and marvel at all the tools and weapons he brought to do combat with. I think heavyweights aside, I only marveled at Sugar Ray Leonard more from a fascination vantage point. Sadly, Roy, because he’s a fighter and it’s so much a part of his DNA, he’s continues to seek one more big moment at age 46. The problem is, Jones is not Bernard Hopkins, in that Hopkins is/was much more technically proficient than he was and was more capable of protecting himself. Roy dominated with athleticism, speed and physical brilliance in much the same way Muhammad Ali did. And like Ali, once the athleticism eroded, he didn’t have the basics and fundamentals to fall back on and became more vulnerable defensively. Ali lost three of his last four fights. Jones has won seven in a row since suffering three consecutive loses, two by knockout, in between 2009-2011. And after winning seven bouts in a row against fighters who wouldn’t have made it as his sparring partner during his prime, he’s at the doorstep of getting a shot a one of the cruiserweight titles.

Today, it’s widely considered that Floyd Mayweather is the best pound-for-pound fighter in professional boxing. Ironically, Jones did the color commentary on Mayweather’s last fight against Manny Pacquiao. It wasn’t that long ago when Roy Jones was considered the best pound-for-pound fighter in the sport. This of course leads one to make comparisons between the best Jones and the best Mayweather when listening to Roy comment on Floyd. And frankly, I don’t think it’s much of a contest.

From a physical skill-set, Jones was faster than Mayweather, had a better offensive repertoire, punched harder with both hands, was a better body puncher and finisher, and yes, because of his foot speed and foot-work, he was harder to hit. In fact the only category where Mayweather gets the check in his column is in the punch resistance column. And even that is a little misleading. Remember, when Roy was stopped and lost for the first time in the ring against Antonio Tarver in their rematch, he was 49-1 (38). The lone defeat was by DQ versus Montel Griffin, who he hit while he was down in the ninth round of their first fight. Roy demolished Griffin in the first round five months later when they met again. So if you compare Jones and Mayweather through 48 fights, Jones is 47-1 (38), but really he is 48-0 (38) compared to Mayweather who is 48-0 (26), and could be 47-1 (26). Floyd lost the first time he fought Jose Luis Castillo in the eyes of everybody who saw the fight and knows what they’re watching. Whereas Jones never even had a close fight through his first 48 bouts and seldom lost a round. There was never a discussion during any of Roy’s bouts circa 1989 and 2003 as to whether he won or lost – the discussion was did he even lose a minute of the bout let alone a round or two.

Some have, myself included, suggested that Mayweather’s opposition and when he fought the biggest names on his record is a little spotty. This is something that applies to Jones as well, only to a lesser degree. The difference is, Jones dominated Bernard Hopkins (a certifiable all-time great and Hall of Famer) when he was near his peak physically. Hopkins entered the fight with Jones 22-1, with the loss coming in his pro-debut. Hopkins won 22 bouts in a row before losing to Jones by a pronounced margin, and then went undefeated for 12 years 1993-2005 after he fought Jones.

Roy fought James Toney a year and a half after he beat Hopkins. Toney entered their fight undefeated at 44-0-2. Jones dominated Toney even more than he did Hopkins and dropped him in the third round. Toney happens to be one of the most complete/great fighters circa 1990-2003. He beat outstanding/great fighters in between middleweight and heavyweight. Toney, like Hopkins, is a certifiable all-time great and Hall of Famer. And Toney holds a stoppage win over former heavyweight great Evander Holyfield, something Dwight Muhammad Qawi, Buster Douglas, Bert Cooper, George Foreman, Michael Moorer, Ray Mercer, Mike Tyson and Lennox Lewis couldn’t do in 12 total fights. Combined, Hopkins and Toney entered their fight with Jones 66-1-2, and it’s doubtful that combined they won six of the 24 rounds they fought him.

After going virtually unchallenged fighting middleweights and light heavyweights during the years 1989-2002, Jones challenged WBA heavyweight title holder John Ruiz in March of 2003. Ruiz entered the fight 38-4-1. His four losses were to Sergey Kobosev (15-0), Danell Nicholson (15-1), David Tua (22-0) and Evander Holyfield (36-4-1). As you can see there were no soft touches for Ruiz. One was unbeaten, one only lost once, Tua was undefeated and is one of the biggest single shot punching heavyweights in history and Holyfield is among the all-time top-10 greats in heavyweight history. No, Ruiz wasn’t the second coming of Joe Louis, but held wins over Tony Tucker, Evander Holyfield and Kirk Johnson before fighting Jones. After losing to Jones he beat Hasim Rahman, Fres Oquendo and Andrew Golota.

Everybody makes a big deal about how middleweight champ Gennady Golovin is too big for Floyd Mayweather, out-weighing him 159-146. Well, Ruiz was 50 pounds heavier than any other opponent Jones ever fought. Did Roy ask for Ruiz to weigh in lighter than he had for any other heavyweight fight? No. Did he ask for Ruiz to wear special gloves or undergo any other specified testing? No. What Jones did was allow Ruiz, who won and retained the title against Evander Holyfield, to fight him under those same conditions. And Roy won eight, nine and 10 of the 12-rounds against Ruiz on the judges’ scorecards. In fact Jones’ decision over Ruiz was about as legitimate as it gets regarding a smaller fighter challenging a bigger fighter. No catch-weights or subterfuge to game the system.

In my opinion, Jones dominating Hopkins, Toney and Ruiz the way he did when he did gives him a better claim to being “TBE” than Mayweather has. Floyd has nothing on his record to compare to that, no way, no how. And Roy was never stopped or beaten up until after he went back down to light heavyweight after moving up to heavyweight to challenge Ruiz. Had Roy retired after beating Ruiz, he would’ve had a legitimate case to be considered among the five greatest pound-for-pound boxers/fighters in history. This is a claim Mayweather couldn’t even make jokingly.

And to those who say Jones feared and ducked light heavyweight Dariusz Michalczewski, wake up and smell the coffee. Michalczewski wouldn’t fight outside of Germany and Poland. After getting hosed out of a Gold medal at the 1988 Olympics in Seoul South Korea, Roy feared leaving the United States and didn’t trust the foreign judges. Mayweather won’t even leave the MGM Grand in Las Vegas.

Roy Jones was superior to Floyd Mayweather in terms of physical skill and talent in the ring. At their best he was clearly the greater fighter and has the better resume. He took more risks and beat greater fighters along with a few stiffs in between. Sure, when it comes to the amount of money made per-risk taken, Mayweather is no doubt “TBE” in that regard. But Roy Jones was a once in a lifetime talent, like Muhammad Ali and Sugar Ray Leonard. I just can’t say that for Floyd Mayweather.

Frank Lotierzo can be contacted at GlovedFist@Gmail.com

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Frank Lotierzo

Avila Perspective, Chap. 289: East LA, Claressa Shields and More

Published

1 day ago

July 25, 2024

David A. Avila

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Avila Perspective, Chap. 289: East LA, Claressa Shields and More

East Los Angeles has long been a haven for some of the best fighters around if you can keep them out of trouble. For every Oscar De La Hoya or Seniesa Estrada there are thousands derailed by crime, drugs or drinking.

Boxing has always been a favorite sport of East L.A. Every family has an uncle or two who boxes.

On Friday, 360 Promotions’ Omar Trinidad (15-0-1) fights Viktor Slavinskyi (15-2-1) in the main event at Commerce Casino, in Commerce, CA. UFC Fight Pass will stream the fight card.

The City of Commerce used to be part of East L.A. until 1960 when it incorporated. It’s still considered to be part of East Los Angeles, but informally.

Plenty of fighters come out of East L.A. but few make it all the way like De La Hoya and Estrada. Will Trinidad be the one?

The first world champion from East L.A. or “East Los” as some call it, was Solly Garcia Smith back in the late 1800s. Others were Richie Lemos, Art Frias and Joey Olivo. There is also 1984 Olympic gold medalist Paul Gonzalez.

Once again 360 Promotions brings its popular brand of fights to the area. On this fight card includes two female bouts. One features Roxy Verduzco (1-0) the former amateur star fighting Colleen Davis (3-1-1) in a featherweight fight.

All that action takes place on Friday.

Elite Boxing

The next day, also in East L.A., Elite Boxing stages another boxing card at Salesian High School located at 960 S. Soto Street in the Boyle Heights area of East Los Angeles.

Elite Boxing has promoted several successful boxing cards at the Catholic high school grounds. The area is saturated by many of the best eateries in Los Angeles. Don’t take my word for it. Check it out yourself and grab some of that delicious food.

Boxing has long been a favorite sport of anyone who lives in East L.A. It’s a fight town equal to Philadelphia, Brooklyn or Detroit. There’s something different about the area. For more than 100 years some of the best fighters continue to come out of its boxing gyms. Some will be performing on these club shows.

For tickets or information go to www.eliteboxingusa.com

Claressa Shields in Detroit

Speaking of fight towns, pound-for-pound best Claressa Shields who won two Olympic Gold Medals in boxing, moves up another weight division to tackle the WBC heavyweight world champion Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse on Saturday, July 27, at Little Caesars Arena in Detroit, Michigan.

DAZN will stream the heavy-duty fight card.

Shields (14-0) cleaned out the super welterweight, middleweight and super middleweight divisions and now wants to add the big girls to her conquests. She will be facing Canada’s Lepage-Joanisse (7-1) who holds the WBC belt.

The last time Shields gloved up was more than a year ago when she fought Maricela Cornejo. Don’t blame Shields. She loves to fight. She loves to win. The last time Shields lost a fight was in the amateurs and that was three presidential administrations ago.

Shields doesn’t lose.

I wonder if Las Vegas even takes bets on her fights?

The only fight she may have been an underdog was against Savannah Marshall who was the last opponent to defeat her. And that was in 2012 in China. When they met as pros two years ago, Shields avenged her loss with a blistering attack.

Don’t get Shields mad.

Perhaps her toughest foe as a pro was in her pro debut when she clashed with Franchon Crews-Dezurn in Las Vegas. It was four rounds of fists and fury as the two pounded each other on the undercard of Andre Ward and Sergey Kovalev in November 2016.

That was a ferocious debut for both female pugilists.

Assisting Shields on this fight card will be several intriguing male bouts. One guy you should pay special attention is Tito Mercado (15-0, 14 KOs) a super lightweight prospect from Pomona, California.

Many excellent fighters have come out of Pomona including Sugar Shane Mosley, Shane Mosley Jr., Alberto Davila and Richie Sandoval who just passed away this week.

Sandoval was best known for his 15-round war with Philadelphia’s Jeff Chandler for the bantamweight world title in 1984. Read the story by Arne K. Lang on this link: https://tss.ib.tv/boxing/featured-boxing-articles-boxing-news-videos-rankings-and-results/81467-former-world-bantamweight-champion-richie-sandoval-passes-away-at-age-63 .

Fights to Watch

Fri. UFC Fight Pass 7 p.m. Omar Trinidad (15-0-1) vs Viktor Slavinskyi (15-2-1).

Sat. ESPN+ 12:30 p.m. Joe Joyce (16-2) vs Derek Chisora (34-13).

Sat. DAZN 3 p.m. Claressa Shields (14-0) vs Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse (7-1), Michel Rivera (25-1) vs Hugo Roldan (22-2-1); Tito Mercado (15-0) vs Hector Sarmiento (21-2).

Omar Trinidad photo by Lina Baker

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Arne’s Almanac: Jake Paul and Women’s Boxing, a Curmudgeon’s Take

Published

2 days ago

July 24, 2024

Arne K. Lang

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Jake Paul can fight more than a little. The view from here is that he would make it interesting against any fringe contender in the cruiserweight division. However, Jake’s boxing acumen pales when paired against his skill as a flim-flam artist.

Jake brought a 9-1 record into last weekend’s bout with Mike Perry. As noted by boxing writer Paul Magno, Jake’s previous opponents consisted of “a You Tuber, a retired NBA star, five retired MMA stars, a part-time boxer/reality TV star, and two undersized and inactive fall-guy boxers.”

Mike Perry, a 32-year-old Floridian, was undefeated (6-0, 3 KOs) as a bare-knuckle boxer after forging a 14-8 record in UFC bouts. In pre-fight blurbs, Perry was billed as the baddest bare knuckle boxer of all time, but against Jake Paul he proved to have very unrefined skills as a conventional boxer which Team Paul undoubtedly knew all along. Perry lasted into the eighth round in a one-sided fight that could have been stopped a lot sooner.

Jake Paul is both a boxer and a promoter. As a promoter, he handles Amanda Serrano, one of the greatest female boxers in history. That makes him the person most responsible (because the buck stops with him) for the wretched mismatch in last Saturday’s co-feature, the bout between Serrano and Stevie Morgan.

Morgan, who took up boxing two years ago at age 33, brought a 14-1 record. Nicknamed the Sledgehammer, she had won 13 of her 14 wins by knockout, eight in the opening round. However, although she resides in Florida, all but one of those 13 knockouts happened in Colombia.

“We found that in Colombia there were just more opportunities for women’s boxing than in the United States,” she told a prominent boxing writer whose name we won’t mention.

The truth is that, for some folks, Colombia is the boxing equivalent of a feeder lot for livestock, a place where a boxer can go to fatten their record. The opportunities there were no greater than in Hot Springs, Arkansas, in 1995. It was there that Peter McNeeley prepped for his match with Mike Tyson with a 6-second knockout of professional punching bag Frankie Hines. (Six seconds? So it would be written although no one seems to have been there to witness it.)

Serrano vs Morgan was understood to be a stay-busy fight for Amanda whose rematch with Katie Taylor was postponed until November. Stevie Morgan, to her credit, answered the bell for the second round whereas others in her situation would have remained on the stool and invented an injury to rationalize it. Thirty-eight seconds later it was all over and Ms. Morgan was free to go home and use her sledgehammer to do some light dusting.

The Paul-Perry and Serrano-Morgan fights played out in a sold-out arena in Tampa before an estimated 17,000. Those without a DAZN subscription paid $64.95 for the livestream. Paul’s next promotion, where he will touch gloves with 58-year-old Mike Tyson (unless Iron Mike pulls a Joe Biden and pulls out; a capital idea) with Serrano-Taylor II the semi-main, will almost certainly rake in more money than any other boxing promotion this year.

Asked his opinion of so-called crossover boxing by a reporter for a college newspaper, the venerable boxing promoter Bob Arum said, “It’s not my bag but folks who don’t like it shouldn’t get too worked up over it because no one is stealing from anybody.” True enough, but for some of us, the phenomenon is distressing.

—

The next big women’s fight happens Saturday in Detroit where Claressa Shields seeks a world title in a third weight class against WBC heavyweight belt-holder Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse.

A two-time Olympic gold medalist, undefeated in 14 fights as a pro, Shields is very good, arguably the best female boxer of her generation which makes her, arguably, the best female boxer of all time. But turning away Lepage-Joanisse (7-1, 2 KOs) won’t elevate her stature in our eyes.

Purportedly 17-4 as an amateur, the Canadian won her title in her second crack at it. Back in August of 2017, she challenged Cancun’s Alejandra Jimenez in Cancun and was stopped in the third round. Entering the bout, Lepage-Joanisse was 3-0 as a pro and had never fought a match slated for more than four rounds.

Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse

True, on the women’s side, the heavyweight bracket is a very small pod. A sanctioning body has to make concessions to harness a sanctioning fee. Nonetheless, how absurd that a woman who had answered the bell for only 11 rounds would be deemed qualified to compete for a world title. (FYI: Alejandra Jimenez was purportedly born a man. She left the sport with a 12-0-1 record after her win over Franchon Crews Dazurn was changed to a no-contest when she tested positive for the banned steroid stanozolol.)

Following her defeat to Jimenez, Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse, now 29 years old, was out of action for six-and-a-half years. When she returned, she was still a heavyweight, but a much slender heavyweight. She carried 231 pounds for Jimenez. In her most recent bout where she captured the vacant WBC title with a split decision over Argentina’s Abril Argentina Vidal, she clocked in at 173 ¼. (On the distaff side, there’s no uniformity among the various sanctioning bodies as to what constitutes a heavyweight.)

Claressa Shields doesn’t need Vanessa Lepage-Joanisse to reinforce her credentials as a future Hall of Famer. She made the cut a long time ago.

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Former World Bantamweight Champion Richie Sandoval Passes Away at Age 63

Published

4 days ago

July 22, 2024

Arne K. Lang

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Richie Sandoval, who won the WBA and lineal bantamweight title in one of the biggest upsets of the 1980s and then, not quite two years later, suffered near-fatal injuries in a title defense, has passed away at the age of 63.

News circulated fast in the Las Vegas boxing community on Monday, July 22, the grapevine actuated by a tweet from Hall of Fame matchmaker Bruce Trampler: “Boxing and the Top Rank family lost one of our own last night in the passing of former WBA bantamweight champion Richie Sandoval. It hurts personally and professionally to know that Richie is gone at age 63. RIP campeon.”

Details are vague but the cause of death was apparently a sudden heart attack that Sandoval experienced while visiting the Southern California home of his son of the same name.

Richie Sandoval put the LA County community of Pomona, California, on the boxing map before Shane Mosley came along and gave the town a more frequently-cited mention in the sports section of the papers. He came from a fighting family. An older brother, Albert “Superfly” Sandoval, became a big draw at LA’s fabled Olympic Auditorium while building a 35-2-1 record that included a failed bid to capture Lupe Pintor’s world bantamweight title.

Richie was a member of the 1980 U.S. Olympic boxing team that was stranded when U.S. President Jimmy Carter (and many other world leaders) boycotted the event as a protest against Russia’s invasion of Afghanistan.

As a pro, Sandoval’s signature win was a 15^th-round stoppage of Jeff Chandler. They fought on April 7, 1984 in Atlantic City. Chandler was making the tenth defense of his world bantamweight title.

Despite being a heavy underdog, Sandoval dominated the fight, winning almost every round until the referee stepped in and waived it off. Chandler, who was 33-1-2 heading in and had avenged his lone defeat, never fought again.

Sandoval made two successful defenses before risking his title against Gaby Canizales on the undercard of Hagler-Mugabi in the outdoor stadium at Caesars Palace. In round seven, Sandoval, who had a hellish time making the weight, was knocked down three times and suffered a seizure as he collapsed from the third knockdown. Stretchered out of the ring, he was rushed to the hospital where doctors reduced the swelling in his brain and beat the odds to save his life. This would be Richie’s lone defeat. He finished his pro career with a record of 29-1 (17 KOs).

Bob Arum cushioned some of the pain by giving Richie a $25,000 bonus and offering him a lifetime job at Top Rank which Richie accepted. And let the record show that Arum was good to his word.

A more elaborate portrait of Richie Sandoval was published in these pages in 2017. You can check it out HERE. May he rest in peace.

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